Posted on 03/11/2017 8:32:11 AM PST by ckilmer
Researchers at Caltech and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) have, in just two years, nearly doubled the number of materials known to have potential for use in solar fuels. They did so by developing a process that promises to speed the discovery of commercially viable solar fuels that could replace coal, oil, and other fossil fuels.
Solar fuels, a dream of clean-energy research, are created using only sunlight, water, and carbon dioxide (CO2). Researchers are exploring a range of target fuels, from hydrogen gas to liquid hydrocarbons, and producing any of these fuels involves splitting water.
(Excerpt) Read more at technologynetworks.com ...
Fair enough
As for the loss in efficiency, who cares because the solar energy is free and abundant.
The fact that millions of acres of land will be turned into ugly solar farms that nuke the natural ecology is a small price to pay for your totalitarian wet dream.
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The cheapest solar energy in the USA is in Texas or about in the .035@kwh range. (Across the border in Mexico a bid came in for a solar project for about .037@kwh last year.)Cheapest solar power in foreign deserts is in chile and abu dhabi in the .025@kwh range. coal and natural gas run in the .06@kwh range. cheapest hydro can go to .02@kwh range but is more typically around .04@kwh. These costs are not apples to apples. But what is clear is utility scale solar costs are falling fast, coal costs remain constant, and natural gas costs are down and will remain down for maybe 10-15 years. (There’s another giant natural as play—as big as the marcellus —in western colorado that has not yet been brought to market)
My wag is that in about four years the demand for electic cars will increase by more than 1 million cars @ year. By 2025—they’ll take a real bite out of demand for oil. You can already see proof that the oil majors recognize this because they are shying away from deep water and polar projects that require high oil prices and big time investment leads to payoff. Rather they are going for on land fracking investments in the USA where upfront costs are less and lead times are shorter.
Where articles like this go wrong is by misleading people into believing that what is being talked about is some sort of free ride. What we are really talking about are energy storage technologies.
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I’ve seen a lot of articles that talk about splitting the H2O and using H2 in combination with CO2 to make a fuel. Again a storage mechanism but diesal fuel is easier to store than pure hydrogen—at least until a better storage mechanism comes (and you do see one report after another about new hydrogen storage medium that never quite comes to fruition. ie lots of smoke but no fire. eventually I think this will also happen.)
We are entering a golden age of energy. A lot of stuff will be tested.
What we are really talking about are energy storage technologies.
That’s true of all schemes to use hydrogen as a fuel. Hydrogen is not a source of energy...
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This is musk’s argument against fuel cells. Why convert solar to hydrogen to electricity. Why not just convert solar to electricity.
The only reason for water splitting is for energy storage. Which is not a bad idea—because of the intermittency of solar. However, Musk has developed a PowerWall storage unit to get around that solution.
What we are really talking about are energy storage technologies.
That’s true of all schemes to use hydrogen as a fuel. Hydrogen is not a source of energy...
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This is musk’s argument against fuel cells. Why convert solar to hydrogen to electricity. Why not just convert solar to electricity.
The only reason for water splitting is for energy storage. Which is not a bad idea—because of the intermittency of solar. However, Musk has developed a PowerWall storage unit to get around that solution.
You can’t get water to split unless you put the energy back into it that was recovered when hydrogen and oxygen was combined. Plus a little more. What’s being offered here, a perpetual machine or some such non-feasible project?
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The energy for water splitting comes from the sun. The catalysts just increase the efficiency of the water splitting.
In order for water to be piped a 1000 miles inland—what has to happen is that energy costs need to become a fraction of today’s costs. I think this will happen. In 10 years. There are three routes down; thorium reactors, solar power, and some kind of man made hydrocarbon fuel created synthetically. I think that nuclear will ultimately be the cheapest but solar and synthetic hydrocarbon fuel may get cheap fastest.
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A second kind of technology that may need to be perfected is on the fly 3d printed pipelines.
Imagine the deserts having water piped in from the sea. What is now a barren wasteland can now provide energy that can be used whenever, wherever. As for the loss in efficiency, who cares because the solar energy is free and abundant.
It takes a lot of energy to set that up in the first place, and then to keep it running. Solar radiation on earth is roughly about 1 kW/square meter (when the sun shines). Will there be a net gain after all the energy spent to set it up and keep it running (and that includes all the energy spent on making the materials and hardware - with a limited life cycle)? Without a net gain it’s a losing proposition. So far none of the known schemes have been able to provide that net gain. I’d be absolutely thrilled to see anyone make that happen!
In order for water to be piped a 1000 miles inland—what has to happen is that energy costs need to become a fraction of today’s costs. I think this will happen. In 10 years. There are three routes down; thorium reactors, solar power, and some kind of man made hydrocarbon fuel created synthetically. I think that nuclear will ultimately be the cheapest but solar and synthetic hydrocarbon fuel may get cheap fastest.
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A second kind of technology that may need to be perfected is on the fly 3d printed pipelines.
Imagine the deserts having water piped in from the sea. What is now a barren wasteland can now provide energy that can be used whenever, wherever. As for the loss in efficiency, who cares because the solar energy is free and abundant.
It takes a lot of energy to set that up in the first place, and then to keep it running. Solar radiation on earth is roughly about 1 kW/square meter (when the sun shines). Will there be a net gain after all the energy spent to set it up and keep it running (and that includes all the energy spent on making the materials and hardware - with a limited life cycle)? Without a net gain it’s a losing proposition. So far none of the known schemes have been able to provide that net gain. I’d be absolutely thrilled to see anyone make that happen!
I’d much rather look at fields of solar panels as far as the eye can than grass and trees. And if a bunch of birds get fried and native species disappear, so what?
works fine if you have a nuke plant
What ya gonna do, start selling sea salt?
It’s obvious that you don’t know the desert. Hint: it’s not the barren wasteland you claim.
Hey.. what about that little guy named Jesus who turned water into wine?
We have more oil than they do...
Storage is the primary advantage of taking the extra step and using additional energy to create a diesel like liquid fuel instead of hydrogen. But internal combustion engines designed to burn diesel fuel are also more efficient than internal combustion engines designed to burn gasoline which have been converted to burn hydrogen.
Hey.. what about that little guy named Jesus who turned water into wine?
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Doesn’t sound like you’re a christian.
Beyond that what’s your point.
Speak for your self.
"Me and Jesus have our own thing goin'."
I think he was being sardonic.
:-)
(That is to say, right, but then you could just use 100% of the nuke power instead of wasting half or more of it on some Rube Goldberg solar scheme.)
Haha! We’ll wait for summer then.
I’ll bring the steak and cold beer. You supply the gin and tequila.
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