Posted on 11/21/2016 2:07:14 PM PST by jazusamo
Anti-Trump secessionists filed formal paperwork Monday launching their petition drive aimed at separating California from the union by first putting the issue before voters on the 2018 ballot.
A petition submitted by the Yes California Independence Campaign calls for repealing language in the state constitution that describes California as an “inseparable part” of the nation and holding a vote on independence on March 13, 2019.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
How else do you prevent a state from seceding if they choose to leave and take up arms to do so?
On another thread some of us were talking about the State of Kentucky and the onset of the Civil War. As a border state Kentucky was situated in a precarious circumstance. It cherished its union status but sympathized with the southern slavers. More than anything it wished to maintain the status-quo (also precariously balanced) of comity to its neighbors to adjoining states north AND south.
Kentucky’s governor Beriah Magoffin resisted Lincoln’s call for troops and declared Kentucky neutral. It wanted more than anything to avoid bloodshed. Lincoln was outraged and called Magoffin’s move traitorous. But at the same time he chose to take no action in the hopes that Kentuckians would see reason.
The confederates on the other hand saw an opportunity and invaded Kentucky on the 4rd of September, 1861. The result was that the state sought the protection of the union and remained in the union throughout the war - even if reluctantly.
Actions have consequences.
Nothing is ever settled. Ever.
That’s called “fisting”. And here I thought you were saying Californian’s were bad. I didn’t propose anything like that to you, and I’m sorry, but I don’t want to engage in that kind of thing with you. Find someone in your state.
I provided information to you.
This you took only as prideful. I suppose you think all your teachers were prideful too. No, it’s so you can make more informed comments. Instead you have disregarded everything I have presented to you, and continually seek to insult me.
Hey, if you don’t have the tools to evaluate facts, fine. I’m sorry you don’t.
You keep telling things like, “We don’t love you.” That is something that I learned not to let bother me by the second grade. That’s the level of dialogue you have brought to this discussion. It’s childish.
What you think of me means nothing to me. Provide some information that eliminates all the concerns I have raised, and you’ll get somewhere. Until then you’ll simply be seen as a child tossing a little tantrum.
San Diego is nice. Would like to keep it. They can have San Fran.
Here you completely miss the point yet again.
My life probably wouldn’t change much if the state were to leave the union. The state would prosper. I would live my life much the same way I have.
I am trying to explain aspects of this eventuality that would hurt the nation. You keep responding as if this is only concern for myself.
If you don’t mind if the U.S. loses it’s Pacific Fleet Naval Bases, I’m quite content to let you blow in the wind on that issue.
That’s the beauty of secession. If the majority of your fellow Californians votes for it then nobody has to care about your concerns. Cast your vote and take your chances.
The problem isn’t the 30 million people part. The problem is that it’s 30 million *Californians*. :P
I have advocated people not to talk it up.
Instead I get folks trashing California, insulting me, and completely ignoring the fact that reveal it would be a big loss for the U.S.
It hasn’t been my intent to prevent the state from doing what it wants. I have tried to appeal to people’s intellect, so that they would talk it down.
I guess that was a waste of time.
You are talking about one base since SF closed. I think the fleet will be ok.
Yes they do, I agree.
It’s amazing the things folks fail to learn from the Civil War
War is hell. The Civil War was so destructive.
There must have been a way for both sides to give a little and avoid that.
Then you get people with big mouths and smaller brains who talk about how it’s time for another, and how easy it would be.
Folks just never learn.
I agree with the thought of providing facts (such as the Pacific fleet, GDP, etc.) to try to convince people that there is a mutual benefit for California staying in the Union. Ultimately, Californians should have the ability to judge the validity of those arguments.
War is hell only if one chooses to fight one.
My dad, who worked at Lawrence Livermore Lab, said that California is the land of fruits and nuts...
Why don’t they just wait for the next yuuuuuge earthquaketo take place?
I don’t believe any of the Naval Bases north of California could handle our fleet. We’re also talking about at least 700 miles farther North.
In San Diego the weather is clear and sunny most of the time. Here are some comparisons.
Up North you get more rain, it is cold, there is snow, and the ocean water coming off the Gulf of Alaska is colder.
San Diego weather averages
Annual high temperature: 69.8°F
Annual low temperature: 57.5°F
Average temperature: 63.65°F
Average annual precipitation - rainfall: 10.4 inch
Days per year with precipitation - rainfall: 43 days
Portland weather averages
Annual high temperature: 63.3°F
Annual low temperature: 45.7°F
Average temperature: 54.5°F
Average annual precipitation - rainfall: 35.98 inch
Days per year with precipitation - rainfall: 154
Seattle weather averages
Annual high temperature: 58.8°F
Annual low temperature: 45.1°F
Average temperature: 51.95°F
Average annual precipitation - rainfall: 34.1 inch
Days per year with precipitation - rainfall: 152 days
Ocean water temperatures
San Diego (Scripps Pier)
J F M A M J J A S O N D
58 57 58 60 63 65 67 68 66 63 61 59
Port Orford, Oregon
50 January
50 February
50 March
50 April
51 May
51 June
51 July
52 August
53 September
52 October
52 November
52 December
Seattle
JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC
47 46 46 48 50 53 55 56 56 54 51 49
If your state left the union, I wouldn’t be talking it up.
This is the nation we love, and we either want it to remain a viable global power, or we don’t mind it it splinters apart and becomes an also ran that China can dominate.
If San Diego is such a strategic asset to the defense of the US, then the US should be willing to negotiate it’s future in a treaty with California.
I suspect Bremerton WA has a good channel since Ohio class submarines use that base. Lafayette class subs had a draft of 32 feet or so, so I would think Ohio class draw somewhat more. Honolulu can of course handle deep draft vessels.
I am not a present day expert on the Naval service but I know a little about the Navy. I graduated from the US Naval Academy and spent some time on a sub in San Diego.
If my state wanted to leave the Union, I would hope that you would let us go in peace.
As one of the other posters brought up, this sort of talk about leaving the union or splitting the state comes up about every ten years. It’s never taken serious. I don’t believe it will be this time.
When there’s more of a likelihood of it, I’ll talk about it more.
Whenever folks talk down California, I’ll be here to remind them that there are far more positives than negatives.
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