Posted on 10/25/2016 5:18:14 AM PDT by SJackson
“Save your blasphemy for the idiots that share your madness.”
Just to be clear, my distant cousin, the carpenter, “suffered” from this “madness” which you condemn. Since the time of Abraham, we have proudly stood, and died, for the principle that “Hear, Israel, the L-rd is our G-d, the L-rd is One.” ONE, not 3.
Here is what your scriptures say that my cousin said about obeying the Law (ie. Jewish law):
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matt 5:17-19).
Last I looked, Heaven and Earth are still here. So who is blaspheming, who suffers from a madness? Hint: it isn’t me.
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Judaism is blasphemy.
It is based in men thinking themselves great enough to change Yehova’s unchangeable Torah.
Yeshua came exactly as told by his prophets. No surprise that someone that embraces soiling Torah with the twisted fallacies of self aggrandizing men would find capricious ways of denying him.
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P.S.
Yeshua denounced every shred of the man made scam called Judaism.
Read the woes he pronounced on the scribes and Pharisees for twisting his Torah, and enslaving his sheep, in chapter 23 of Cohen Matthew’s gospel.
[From your post #62]:
“Judaism is blasphemy.
It is based in men thinking themselves great enough to change Yehova’s unchangeable Torah.
Yeshua came exactly as told by his prophets. No surprise that someone that embraces soiling Torah with the twisted fallacies of self aggrandizing men would find capricious ways of denying him.”
[From your post #63]:
“P.S.
Yeshua denounced every shred of the man made scam called Judaism.
Read the woes he pronounced on the scribes and Pharisees for twisting his Torah, and enslaving his sheep, in chapter 23 of Cohen Matthew’s gospel.”
Before I get into an explanation that will let you (and anyone else reading this) know the truth (or find it, upon further inquiry), I’d like to make a couple of points:
1) Thanks for admitting that the Torah is unchangeable. That’s a short summary of Deuteronomy 13:1.
2) If the Torah is unchangeable, I’d like you to explain why people of your faith, who claim to believe in and revere the Hebrew Bible (the “Old” Testament), celebrate the Sabbath on Sundays, rather than on Saturdays as Jews have done since the time of Abraham.
3) If the Torah is unchangeable, I’d like you to explain why people of your faith, who claim to believe in and revere the Hebrew Bible (the “Old” Testament), don’t make an effort (generally speaking) to keep kosher. You not only don’t slaughter kosher animals in the proper manner, but you eat pigs, shellfish and other non-kosher animals, and you combine milk and meat (which the Torah says not to do 3 separate times - I think that G-d MEANT it).
4) Deuteronomy 13:1 states: “All this word which I command you, that shall ye observe to do; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.”
How, then, in view of this COMMANDMENT to not add or subtract from the Law (the Torah), can you explain why people of your faith, who claim to believe in and revere the Hebrew Bible (the “Old” Testament), created new books for the Bible, added new holidays and added the new idea that G-d can “become man?”
In short, just using these 3 simple examples, your religion goes against the word of G-d (which is, not to put too fine of a point on it, the very definition of “blasphemy”). WHY? How can you do those things if you believe that the Torah is directly from G-d and is unchangeable?
But here’s my shorter take on it, and a few other points: First of all, there is a HUGE (YUUUUUUGE, even) mistake that you’re making. G-d did not give us the Torah (i.e. the 5 Books of Moses). He gave Moses the 10 Commandments (twice, as the first set was destroyed by Moses). He did NOT give Moses the 5 Books of Moses. In fact, Moses is the one who wrote everything down over the 40 years in the desert (well, technically, over the remaining 39 years after Mt. Sinai), with most of it being done in the latter part of Moses’ life. That is WHY they are called the 5 Books of MOSES - HE WROTE THEM.
Now, he wrote them in accordance with G-d’s wishes, he didn’t just make it up out of whole cloth. First of all, the Ten Commandments have many layers and many meanings, not just the surface that anyone can read and likely understand without too much difficulty. I’m no scholar, but much smarter and more informed people than me have stated in no uncertain terms that all 613 laws embodied in the Torah are discernible from the Ten Commandments. Second, as detailed in the Torah, Moses communicated with G-d on many occasions, presumably to get guidance regarding problems and laws (I’m pretty sure that they weren’t too worried about the weather, and also that they didn’t hash out whether the Cubs should ever win the World Series after 1908).
Something else that you are likely not aware of is that the 613 laws are, themselves, insufficient to describe what obligations Jews had then or would have later. For example, Jewish men are are commanded to wear phylacteries each morning except on the Sabbath and certain holidays. OK, fine...but what, EXACTLY, are phylacteries? What are they made of? How big are they? What is contained inside of them? How do you put them on and take them off? When do you put them on and take them off? There are literally thousands of other areas where Jews need guidance as to HOW to fulfill G-d’s laws - and the answers are NOT found in the written Torah, the 5 Books of Moses.
That’s where the Oral Torah (also called the Mishneh Torah, or just the Mishneh) comes in. It was literally oral, and existed even before the written Torah (in part), though part of what G-d did when Moses was on Mt. Sinai for 40 days was to instruct him in the Oral Torah. The entirety of it was passed from generation to generation for over 1,300 years, until shortly after the destruction of the 2nd Temple by the Romans. At that point, the slaughter of Jews (and,especially, learned Jews) was so great that there arose a fear that the Oral Law would be lost...so after a great debate, it was written down. This became the heart of the Talmud, with great rabbis over the course of nearly 1,000 years commenting on how the Torah itself, as well as the Mishneh Torah, applied to circumstances not mentioned in either of those sources of knowledge.
Now here is yet another thing that you simply don’t know: In Deuteronomy 17:8-11 (Deuteronomy being the last of the 5 Books of Moses, as I’m sure you know), it says the following:
“8. If a matter eludes you in judgment, between blood and blood, between judgment and judgment, or between lesion and lesion, words of dispute in your cities, then you shall rise and go up to the place the Lord, your God, chooses.
9. And you shall come to the Levitic kohanim and to the judge who will be in those days, and you shall inquire, and they will tell you the words of judgment.
10. And you shall do according to the word they tell you, from the place the Lord will choose, and you shall observe to do according to all they instruct you.
11. According to the law they instruct you and according to the judgment they say to you, you shall do; you shall not divert from the word they tell you, either right or left.”
This CLEARLY shows that if someone does not know the proper action or the proper words in a given situation, THEN THEY ARE TO GO TO THE RELIGIOUS AUTHORITIES EXISTING AT THE TIME, AND THEY WILL TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. In other words, G-d, Himself, commanded the Priestly class, the Levites (who were very learned and assisted the Priests) and anyone who was a judge at any point in the future, to interpret the words of the Torah. G-d was clearly fine with that state of affairs...but, apparently, your judgment is better than His.
So much for your world-class IGNORANT statement that, “Judaism is blasphemy. It is based in men thinking themselves great enough to change Yehova’s unchangeable Torah.”
Here’s a more general discussion as to what you’re missing: http://www.mesora.org/Kraeger.html
Concerning Jesus: http://www.mesora.org/jesus5776.html
More concerning Jesus: http://www.mesora.org/jesus5776B.html
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I’ve no time to read your ridiculous screed, but there is little about Judaism that reflects Torah.
Judaism was concocted in the second temple period, one takanot at a time, until it bound Yehova’s sheep to an unmovable stone.
The Pharisees’ ma’assim are even more absurd, assuming that because some arrogant “Rabbi” did something in a certain way, all of the sheep are forever bound to do so.
Men cannot change Yehova’s commandments.
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So you choose to remain ignorant.
What IF you were wrong? We are, after all, just fallible humans. What if you were to find out, through study, that the religion passed down by your ancestors had a fundamental flaw...but that you could learn the Truth? You set so low of a value upon your eternal soul that you’re unwilling to look further?
Hey, maybe by studying you’ll reinforce your beliefs - why not give it a shot?
Oh, btw, you are incredibly wrong about Judaism. You mistake comes about through ignorance. G-d gave you a mind capable of both curiosity and reason - use it, because He expects you to do so.
He also made it plain that he was bread from heaven. He wasn't claiming to be King Arthur.
He Also said “if you have seen me you have seen the Father.”
Naturally, because many good works of his Father were seen through him. Through his works, one may envision the invisible God. Job was hip to that.
He was our Elohim made flesh.
Believing that a human was claiming to be God... That's where the expert keepers of knowledge in the NT went off the rails. Hyper-literalism, narrowly-defined words and ideas stripped of any functional context, to be reworked as needed... this is how bad characters operate in order to catch a person in his words, falsely accuse, and manipulate others' perceptions. Some people do to a person's speech what boa constrictors do to their prey. Now nobody here on FR tolerates that coming from CNN or any of the other media outlets (that is to say, the secular keepers of knowledge) - we all know not to trust any of them as far as we could throw them. Yet when the NT religious experts are quoted doing the same thing, the modern keepers of religious knowledge - when convenient - not only embrace their 'insight', they double down in defending it. Never mind that Jesus knew what they were up to, knew what they were trying to pull. It's in the plain text, over and over.
The Messiah will indeed recognize exactly who is who.
Jesus flipped over the money-changers' tables and the seats of those who sold doves, saying that those merchants had turned his father's house into a house of merchandize. Christianity sure is big business these days. "Believers" are so full what is sold to them that they don't see that the tower they've constructed is a game of Jenga. The real Messiah is going to cut off the cash flow. After all, judgment begins at the House of God. Or, why the tower of Babel needed to fall: one language, one speech - lashon hora. The busy little bees didn't learn a lesson from the flood, apparently (when the thoughts of men's hearts were only evil continually). They and their father were/are one.
Judaism is blasphemy.
It is based in men thinking themselves great enough to change Yehova’s unchangeable Torah.
Yeshua came exactly as told by his prophets. No surprise that someone that embraces soiling Torah with the twisted fallacies of self aggrandizing men would find capricious ways of denying him.
The NT is the book Christians read. Some folks take in the accounts of the Pharisees and scribes and see problems with Jews. Sailing right past, are all the lessons about what not to do. As in, see those guys? See all the examples? See those experts not paying attention to what he was saying, acting like they work for the New York Times? Don't do that.
What happens? They do just that, and even point fingers at the Jews (projection). It has been my observation that "grace" has been made into an affirmative action scheme, where a person is entitled to a position just because he has the proper appearance and "password" to get in the door. 'Cause ya know, everyone falls short and deserves a perpetual chance, and were it not for quotas, some interviewer might - gasp - discriminate (discern and apply proper judgment).
So here we are, if a sign says "stay off the grass" then people want to walk on the grass. If by grace the sign is taken down, people feel free to walk all over the grass and leave their trash. It demonstrates the need for the sign in the first place. Meanwhile, the righteous - sign or no sign - know to stay off the grass. It would be disrespectful to trample a man's lawn. Those folks mindful of another's property would want for others to treat them same way. They don't need the sign or the ordinance, or don't need to have the sign or ordinance removed. It's all irrelevant, because they wouldn't do that.
How does the Torah of the Mashiach make the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu seem like air.. luft... fluff? Simple: he just does it. Now that's really going to frost some people. The Jews are going to love this guy. They will be eager to pay attention to what he's doing and how he's doing it, and then be all excited to get to work. Woo-hoo! Christian scholars and assorted know-it-alls, not so much. They'll be too busy arguing and gnashing their teeth over grace vs. works, or stampeding to the Rapture buses sitting over in Ray Nagan's parking lot.
Read the woes he pronounced on the scribes and Pharisees for twisting his Torah, and enslaving his sheep, in chapter 23 of Cohen Matthew’s gospel.
There's just not enough popcorn for watching how this is all going to go down.
At least those 'scribes and Pharisees' were only misinterpreting Jesus' words, thinking wrongly that he was claiming to be God. Most Christians, OTOH, believe and *embrace* the concept, even making it a litmus test for who is a true Christian. "Oy vey", as the saying goes.
Do not paint Christians with such a broad brush. Christianity begins in Genesis... that symbolic ‘tree of life’ that is still alive in the last chapter of Revelation. Moses is a Christian!!!
Thank you for those links and your detailed post(s).
If the Messiah were nosing around Free Republic today, what would he think?
Perhaps something along the lines of,
“Ancesthntr reminds me of my father David. He’s been insulted and had dirt flung on him, been called a druggie and a blasphemer, yet he let it roll right off, remaining patient, returning good for the evil.”
“Well, now I know who to rely upon when I’ve got a bunch of crazed weirdos pounding on my door. If he’s got to dispatch them, I’ll know they had it coming.”
:)
Thanks much for the very inflated complement, but I am definitely undeserving.
Just trying to do my part to dispel untruth concerning Judaism, that’s all. I have a little bit of knowledge, and know where to find more, that’s all.
But thanks, its appreciated. Shabbat Sholom/Good Shabbos!
Most Christians do embrace the trinity. It’s a key statement of faith, oft used to ‘discern’ who is a true Christian vs. who is an heretic.
There’s what’s in the NT. Then there’s what people say [and insist] is in the NT.
The Messiah is going to embarrass people. Well not on purpose exactly, being a gracious fellow. It’s just that people... will be embarrassed.
Not one stone will be left upon the other.
Paul said the 'old Testament' was our script for what would be again... IICorinthians 10:11 and Christ warned repeatedly that the old serpent would be playing his subtly planted deeply within those coming in Christ's Holy Name... There is a reason why 'the people' would be praying for mountains to fall upon them... red faced embarrassment, borne out of that 'deception' which is spewed out like a flood.
Hmmm, if the Messiah believed the major church doctrines, he wouldn't recognize himself.
Anyhoo, I need to correct my error in post 69. Who should be whom. I should think that a man of such vast knowledge would have a firm grasp on English grammar! I don't want to insinuate that he is of sloppy speech or thought. Ouch. :-/
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