Posted on 09/07/2016 7:55:34 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
We have both. But we aren’t getting any more 22’s. They shut down the production line and put it in mothballs. The F-15 line is still active (mostly from foreign sales). So what we have, we are stuck with. So why not make them the best they can be. Upgrades are good.
Are you thinking of using the F22s as the “stealth spotter” with the 747 as the AMRAAM supply/firing depot?
Interesting.
You're absolutely correct. Reliable, adaptive and surprisingly agile performance describe the Viper. The F-16 has been the value of the century.
OK, I'm biased, I helped build them. but that doesn't change the facts.
“...so with dwindling resources the AF will have to make a tough choice.”
Seems to me if the albatross of political correctness and social engineering was removed from the military, existing funding would be sufficient. There are the direct costs in dollars, and indirect costs in low morale.
Then the only tough choice would be who to use our hardware on and when.
Am I right?
oh boy. What about this F35, do we have enough of them and are they as GREAT as they were supposed to be/
There are so many intricacies to the acquisition process that it would make a normal person’s head explode. It would be really nice if the military could just select the best tools for the job, but that’s never the case. There are libraries full of acquisition laws and regulations. The military can spend years studying and testing before making a recommendation just to be overruled by someone in the chain because the parts aren’t made in the appropriate congressional district.
Some weapons systems were selected solely to support a local economy where an important Congressman lives. The military didn’t even have a real need for it.
Some programs are put into place as an interim program to keep an assembly line open while new contracts are being written. The government knows that if they shut down an assembly line, the workers will go elsewhere the company will re-purpose the facility. So the government gives them another “make work” project to keep the facilities operating until the funding for the new project is approved.
Some of the simulators and electronics that were purchased for the F-15 were actually prototypes that were going to be used on the F-22. They were tested on the F-15 first.
Senior officials in the Pentagon will influence the selection process. Coincidentally, those same Generals sometimes get high-paying jobs with the contractor after they retire.
There are a lot of laws requiring the military to purchase from small business and minority and female run businesses. There are laws to limit how much of each system can be purchased from overseas. You don’t want key components of a weapons system to be controlled by a country that could shut off the supply for political motives.
The War Colleges and Pentagon have whole bureaucracies working on war plans and trying to determine what our future wars will look like.
Sometimes a single service commander will alter the whole strategy of the AF based on his vision. In one generation we were thinking that Strategic Air Forces could deter any major conflicts and the next war would be Nuclear. Then came Vietnam and we shifted to a different strategy. Now we’re preparing for small, global limited conflicts all over the world.
You are correct, the racing adage of “run what you brung” is applicable when the bullets start flying. The idiots who stopped production of the F-22 should be brought up on charges. The F-15 with updates and extended airframe life will be good for a while longer. The F-35 may turn out OK, however I feel that it will continue to under deliver for some time to come.
Pilot less aircraft are the future.
The biggest factor in that is the disinfornation narrative machine that always fires up when a new design is coming on line. It has had more than 10 years to fester in the minds of the public.
The F-35 is finally operational in the USMC and the fleet is building in the USAF. The Navy is lagging somewhat because they have to deal with unique features like carrier qualifications.
No doubt, there are opinions contrary to mine that you may get with your post.
How are the pilots going to fly? Pilot less aircraft = sitting on ground.
Think one of the questions that needs to be asked is, if you took any fighter aircraft from any arsenal today and put it up against the F15, what are its chances of winning? The 15, not only is a better plane than anything out there today, but has better pilots.
If someone asked me what could beat an F15 in a one on one dogfight, I would say the best plane Russia or China has, piloted by an American. We have a different way of thinking, which make us better with technology.
Lack of the several trillion dollars that would cost?
I would love to see 75 of FR’s best and brightest against wikipedia in a contest :)
I think FR would win.
Pfflier, thanks for the info on F35. Reading more and more that it is a great fighter.
Vigilanteman, thanks for the meteor info.
I agree. The US strategy is to field a smaller number of technologically superior aircraft piloted by better-trained pilots. Some countries prefer a strategy of sheer numbers.
The F-15 pilot training program was very intense and had one of the highest failure rates of any program in the military. The typical F-15 student pilot had been one of the top graduates of the AF Academy and had completed his undergraduate pilot training in the top 1 or 2 percent. Despite that, we had a washout rate of 25%.
Pilots went through two years of intense training before being sent to their fighter squadrons. Once there they went through several more months of specialized training on their individual unit mission before being considered a qualified wingman.
Only the F-22 surpasses it.
However, the F-35 can take it out from 50-100 miles away.
But the F-35 can't dog fight.
Sounds like the prevailing opinion on Dec 6 1941.
“Sounds like the prevailing opinion on Dec 6 1941.”
I don’t understand the significance or relevance.
It cost us in blood well into 1945.
The US strategy is to field a smaller number of technologically superior aircraft piloted by better-trained pilots.
Their pilots were highly-trained, also. They were so highly trained, with such strict rules of recruitment, that as the US began biting into Japanese aviation, Tokyo couldn’t replace the pilots quickly enough. Quality finally lost out to quantity, with a midwar boost in US quality and quantity both.
Don’t ask about the torpedo debacle, though.
They’re actually working on the concept. The Air Force realizes that current fighters (including the F-22) don’t carry enough missiles for long-range engagements over the South China Sea (and other locations). So, they’re working on an “arsenal aircraft” that will launch scores of munitions that will be guided to target by fighter aircraft or even remote C2 platforms.
Of course, the concept has some drawbacks; the arsenal jet needs to be within 100 miles of the furball for even extended-range AMRAAMs to reach their targets and that lumbering C-17 (or whatever platform they use) will need dedicated protection.
Also retired USAF (from the spook world, with lots of time at the unit level)..you are correct. Remember a conversation with an Eagle driver at Langley, back when the 1st FW still had F-15s and F-22s. Asked him about flying against the Raptor. His answer: “the engagements are pretty simple; they always kill us long before we can see them.” After a few evolutions, we (the F-15 element) break off and fly against each other and get some actual training done.”
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