'I am German': Munich gunman in furious exchange with bystander

The Guardian ^ | July 23, 2016 | Bonnie Malkin

[Enchante]

Video has emerged appearing to show the gunman who shot dead at least nine people in Munich involved a furious argument with a witness, shouting “I am German!” and complaining of being bullied.

The shooter, who was found dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound, was identified by German police as an 18-year-old with dual German and Iranian nationality. He had no criminal record.

In the footage, which was posted on Twitter, an unseen man can be heard shouting abuse at another man, who is clad all in black and pacing on the top floor of an empty car park.

[odds]

I’m not gonna make a personal judgement on the question you asked, since as far as I have read, so far only 1 eyewitness has claimed that he said so. Also, based on Sonboly’s direct self-proclamation in the actual video he insists to be a German, born & raised. He doesn’t claim to be a muslim. That’s his self-perception.

But I understand the ideologically motivated point you are making - see my post #43. Though the recorded video conversation points to other elements at play, not necessarily ideologically (Islam) based. So, I’ll wait until the cops establish or at least suggest a motive for his actions.

As for your second point, yes, Andres Behring’s actions were ideologically motivated, he actually confessed the reason for his actions (not too dissimilar to Sonboly). I am familiar with Behring’s case, and he was also diagnosed to have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, although not psychotic when he committed the murders.

But, if I were to speculate about Sonboly’s choice of McDonalds and kids in particular, similar to target chosen by the Andres Behring, I’d suggest Sonboly had serious issues with his own treatment as he was growing up, as he said in the video. Issues which most likely went unresolved. Since he shot himself in the head and is now dead, unlike Andres, we will never know for sure.

[GailA]

You could say about the same thing of the ghetto kids in the US. No education, single parent on drugs, no male figure in life except the johns that provide the money for the drugs, and another baby to boost welfare payments. 120+ murders in Memphis, TN alone since Jan. Most black. 1 black mom just murdered her 4 children from baby to toddlers. They will say she is insane, do a few years in mental ward, after it takes 2 yrs to get to that verdict. Then walk free to reproduce more, and maybe kill those too. No punishment.

Black LIBTARD DEM run city.

[Steve_Seattle]

"First, the kid was native-born, but in a minority group like the Iranians in Germany....he likely got dumped on a good bit by German-Turks."

According to the transcript, it's not clear who made the comment about the "Turks." It might have been a bystander, not the shooter.

Nothing is yet clear about his motives, but I've read that many of the Muslims in Europe are - by choice and/or by discrimination - poorly integrated into society. Such an individual, particularly if personally taunted and mentally unstable, might use this as an excuse to wage personal Jihad unrelated to any formal terror group.

When millions of European Muslims are already unemployed, underemployed, and festering in ghettos, it seems madness to bring in millions more.

[bgill]

I recall as far back as 1970s, though at that time they were mostly Turks, and the Germans most definitely didn’t like them.

It was around '92 that my German friend made comments about not liking the Turks.

[odds]

Ok. What I’m saying is that belief in Islamic Terrorism had to be cultivated, reinforced, and then had to be triggered. One is not born with such a belief or any ideologically-based belief to a degree where one goes and kills people.

[Steve_Seattle]

Whatever the shooter’s motives, it now seems highly unlikely that he was a “neo-Nazi,” as Shep “The Pope is Dead” Smith kept insisting yesterday, based on nothing more than the shooter’s boots. Smith is not competent to serve as a reporter/commentator for a major network.

[mazda77]

Because his anger was directed at the “foreigners” for what the Germans were lumping him in with them in their public discourse. He was attacking the easiest group to go after in a mass assault mindset. Somebody was going to pay for his psychosis.

[odds]

Yes, actually Kanacken is a slang originally used by Germans for Turks in particular, suggesting another person (not the Shooter Sonboly) thought Sonboly must have been a Turk.

Also, Sonboly, in the video, actually made no comments about Turks specifically. The translation in post #2 is incorrect and not the same as what is stated in the original article from the Guardian.

[MRadtke]

It seems to me that the latest MO of ISIS type groups is to find some mentally unstable individual - not previously connected to any terror organization and thus not on the radar - and co-opt him for their cause.

[billyboy15]

Sure but this belief can as easily be cultivated by accessing the websites of these terrorist scumbags. It is after all the way the recruitment process normally will begin.

It doesn’t take much to trigger a disturbed person and we see and hear all the time of how terrorists encourage others to kill and maim in the name of the pedophile Mohammed.

[Steve_Seattle]

"Also, Sonboly, in the video, actually made no comments about Turks specifically. The translation in post #2 is incorrect and not the same as what is stated in the original article from the Guardian."

That's how I interpreted it. It seems more likely to me that a bystander would think that the shooter was a Turk than that the shooter would single out Turks for criticism.

[odds]

I don’t disagree with you. I simply like to see it investigated and established as a fact in this case.

[Raycpa]

Balcony man is certainly not using politically correct language.

[Steve_Seattle]

Right now, the latest news is that the shooter was a shy loner who had a fascination with mass shootings, and may have been receiving treatment for some form of mental illness. The authorities have found no evidence of any formal ties with Islamist groups, nor even evidence of any specific interest in such groups. Also, needless to say, they have found no connection to neo-Nazi groups. (Sorry, Shep.)

This is all based on a search of his apartment. So far, the only thing suggesting a religious motivation is the report by one witness that the shooter shouted "Allahu Akbar" at the McDonald's.

Of course, after the Nice massacre, authorities initially tried to present it as a spontaneous act by a non-religious loner; now, they have found evidence of long-term planning and have arrested several apparent accomplices.

[Awgie]

A muslim woman reported hearing “Ala Akbar” from inside McDonalds during the shooting.

[odds]

Thanks.
I think his family can shed a great deal of light on this situation, and read they are cooperating with German police in their investigation.
My guess is that the neo-nazi stuff and confusion initially came from misinterpreting the video (who said what and to whom).

[Theoria]

Ali is common in Iranian tradition as well...ie Ali Khamenei

[ScaniaBoy]

Yes, I agree. Shia Muslims consider themselves followers of Ali.

[Koracan]

Video was taken right after the attack and before he was found dead, 1 mile away in a side street.
It is the Roof of the same mall where the shooting happened but at street level, so he must have escaped to the roof right after.
He used a illegal 9 mm, the S/N was filed off.
hearing the german words some stuff he says does not make sense, like he will buy a gun, if he has one in his hand already.
He has no accent, clean german language.

What he says is actually very sad, believe or not, "Ich bin Deutscher", I am german (e.g. I was born here, I wanted to belong but was always rejected).

he sums up in those few Answers the whole dilemma the West is in, for the last few decades.

The statements of the screaming Bystander have been said many times before for 40 years to all types of Kanakens (Foreigner [especially arab, turk, african]).
But now they reached critical mass, and they start shooting back. encouraged by all the recent shootings.
Be prepared, level 2 has begun, civil war in the home paradise.

[pieceofthepuzzle]

“It only requires a belief.”

I had a lot of family issues growing up, and felt very much lost at various points as a teenager. I think I got very lucky to get past all of that, but what really sustained me through this period was faith, and the belief that any worldly issue I might face was not that important in the context of God. I wasn't raised in religion, and I chose Christianity (Catholicism actually) myself - for a variety of reasons, but I remember what it was like to face adversity feeling alone, and how different it was when not feeling alone because of faith. So, I personally think and feel that faith is incredibly important and sustaining while navigating the world.

That said, if a kid/young adult finds themselves alone in life, lost and without purpose or meaning, has been ridiculed by others, and was brought up in and then turns to a faith that justifies killing (and that even has radicals encouraging killing), if that kid is impressionable and desperate enough I can see how this happens. This is the danger of radical Islam. It promises a false path forward that can appeal to those who feel most lost, harbor resentments, or have mental health issues. To be honest, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.