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To: DiogenesLamp; rockrr; x
DiogenesLamp: "No.
I refuse to accept the addition of the words 'At Pleasure' to the debate."

Then you are an idiot, pure and simple, nothing more, nothing less.

Did you ever actually read the Declaration of Independence?
Did you somehow fail to catch what it says about serious actions taken "at pleasure"?

No Founder ever disputed this basic concept, and it was expressed more fully by Madison in 1830.

DiogenesLamp: "The founders made it clear that people could leave for any reason they chose, and your attempts to make it conditional are an effort to add a lie to the discussion."

No, it's you who are lying.
Our Founders were clear: no unilateral secession "at pleasure".

DiogenesLamp quoting DOI: "...organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

And that is followed in the next sentence by the cautionary words against "at pleasure" secession I quoted above.

578 posted on 07/13/2016 9:40:28 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
Did you ever actually read the Declaration of Independence?

Many times, and apparently a lot closer than have you.

Did you somehow fail to catch what it says about serious actions taken "at pleasure"?

It said that:

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

I am confident the Southern states believed their cause of Independence was neither light or transitory. The Northern states had jiggered the laws to take profits away from them, and they wished to live under a government more to their liking, as was their right articulated by the Declaration of Independence.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

611 posted on 07/15/2016 2:43:25 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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