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To: BroJoeK
The pure acts of aggression were committed by the Union. For example, Lt. Adam Slemmer, without orders moved his troops at Pensacola, and fired on Florida militia on January 9; days later the Joseph Whitney docked at Ft. Jefferson, on Garden Key in the Tortugas, with Maj. Arnold and his company of artillery setting up as reinforcements for Capt. Meigs.

President Buchanan approved and sent the the sloop-of-war Brooklyn with 90 men from Ft. Monroe, Hampton Roads, to reinforce Ft. Pickens. The Brooklyn, had also been sent days earlier to help the Star of the West, loaded with war materiel and soldiers, in her attempt to aid Ft. Sumter, another aggressive move.

Then, on January 27 the Union Navy Department dispatched to Ft. Pickens at Pensacola, Fla., more reinforcements. It was the warship Brooklyn that sailed from Norfolk, Va., under sealed orders, taking the companies of men from Fortress Monroe. A newspaper freely reported she was destined for Ft. Pickens.

March 11 .....newly inaugurated President Lincoln directed
that Ft. Pickens be reinforced and the man-o-war Mohawk left New York harbor that day with orders to Capt. I. Vodges, 1st U.S. Artillery, directing him to transfer immediately his two companies from the ship Brooklyn to Ft. Pickens.

At the end of that week, The federal fleet off Ft. Pickens included the Sabine (50 guns), the Brooklyn (25 guns), the St. Louis (20 guns), the Crusader (eight guns), the Wyandotte (five guns) and the Supply (two guns).

President Abraham Lincoln issued a direct order to Capt H. A. Adams of the Man-o-war Brooklyn, lying off Pensacola, to land troops from his vessel at Ft. Pickens.

So if it is predisposition to aggression, you have it with two US presidents.

531 posted on 07/11/2016 1:01:06 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge; x; rockrr
PeaRidge: "Lt. Adam Slemmer, without orders moved his troops at Pensacola, and fired on Florida militia on January 9..."

On January 9, 1861 Florida was still a Union state and Fort Pickens Union property.
On January 9, the Florida "militia" who attacked Union troops retreating to Fort Pickens were indisputably insurrectionists, regardless of what they may have claimed after Florida declared secession.

This incident proves beyond dispute that secessionists were eager for war with the United States and did not hesitate to threated violence.

PeaRidge: "...days later the Joseph Whitney docked at Ft. Jefferson, on Garden Key in the Tortugas, with Maj. Arnold and his company of artillery setting up as reinforcements for Capt. Meigs."

On January 9, 1861, before Florida declared secession, Fort Jefferson was a Union fort.
Days later, after Florida declared secession, Fort Jefferson like every other Union fort, was still a Union fort.
By April 1865, Fort Jefferson was used to house prisoners, including some of notoriety.
The fort was no longer used by the Army after 1888.
Today it is part of a national (not state) park.

PeaRidge: "The Brooklyn, had also been sent days earlier to help the Star of the West, loaded with war materiel and soldiers, in her attempt to aid Ft. Sumter, another aggressive move."

Every day the US sends men, supplies and war materials to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, despite the Communists claim that base belongs to them.
Regardless, no US effort to resupply or reinforce Gitmo is "aggressive", but any Communist actions to threaten or attack Gitmo certainly are aggressive, could be provocations or even acts of war, depending on the level of violence.

PeaRidge: "Then, on January 27 the Union Navy Department dispatched to Ft. Pickens at Pensacola, Fla., more reinforcements."

Same response as above.

PeaRidge summarizing: "So if it is predisposition to aggression, you have it with two US presidents."

I'll summarize as I've posted often before: there are at least three excellent analogies to Forts Sumter, Pickens, Jefferson and others sometimes mentioned.

  1. At least half a dozen British forts in New York, Ohio and Michigan occupied for up to 14 years after Brits promised to abandon them in the Treaty of Paris in 1783.
    These forts controlled ship travel along the Great Lakes, at that time the only method of such travel to the Northern continental interior.
    These forts, and their support for Native American tribes against US settlers were doubtless an annoyance to Founders.
    But they were negotiated patiently and successfully by John Jay in 1796.
    That's how our Founders dealt with such tricky issues.

  2. The Confederate military assault on Fort Sumter was precisely equivalent in its effects to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
    Both galvanized US public opinion in favor of a war that very few had previously wanted.

  3. Guantanamo Bay in Cuba is a precise equivalent to Forts Sumter, Pickens, Jefferson and others in that Communist Cubans now claim the US base there is illegal.
    We don't recognize Communist claims and continue to operate Gitmo according to the old treaty.
    That is not "aggressive" on our part, but certainly would be aggression by Commies if they militarily assault us there.

583 posted on 07/13/2016 11:11:35 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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