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To: BroJoeK
He had met with President Roosevelt to discuss the evidence of impending hostilities with Japan, and the question was "how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves."

You are right. Ft. Sumter *WAS* like Pearl Harbor... sort of.

1,724 posted on 11/18/2016 5:58:55 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
Senator Orville Browning, a close friend and confidant of Lincoln’s, advised him prior to the the war:

“In any conflict…..between the government and seceding States, it is very important that the traitors shall be the aggressors, and that they be kept constantly and palpably in the wrong. The first attempt……to furnish supplies or reinforcements will induce aggression by South Carolina, and then the government will stand justified, before the entire country, in repelling that aggression, and retaking the forts.

.

.

“Suppose the expedition successful, we have then a garrison in Ft. Sumter that can defy assault for six months. What is it to do then? Is it to make war by opening its batteries and attempting to demolish the defenses of Charleston? …..I would not initiate war to regain a useless and unnecessary position on the soil of the seceding States.”

Secretary of State Seward

1,725 posted on 11/18/2016 6:19:07 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp; rustbucket; jmacusa; HandyDandy
DiogenesLamp quoting Secretary of War Stimson on a November 25, 1941 meeting: "The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves."

Like Fort Sumter conspiracy theories, Pearl Harbor conspiracies are based on false assumptions and "facts", for example as your link claims: that US cryptographers had broken the Japanese naval code.
Broken the Japanese diplomatic codes, yes, naval codes: no, not yet by December 1941.

Further, there's no evidence -- none -- demonstrating that President Roosevelt knew in advance of the attack at Pearl Harbor.
Certainly they expected a Japanese attack somewhere, and that's why they sent out war warnings in November, 1941 to all Pacific commanders, including Panama, Hawaii and MacArthur in the Philippines.
Such warnings were not specific, and no US commander responded effectively.
Even MacArthur after Pearl Harbor was caught off guard by the Japanese attack on the Philippines.

Regardless, no matter how hard you spin it, or deny the facts, you can never claim the US attacked Japan at Pearl Harbor, just as you cannot say Lincoln attacked the Confederacy at Fort Sumter.
Spinning and denying can only get you so far, FRiend, because the facts & truth remain.


1,728 posted on 11/21/2016 7:53:51 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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