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To: JediJones

I can only answer for my own part. I am by no means certain can win or be successful if he does. Many of his positions are indeed “conservative” to what is deemed the conservative grass-roots. However, they are also pragmatic from a more nationalist or populist viewpoint. Most office holders who campaign as conservatives do see conservatism differently: they are by-and-large open borders, cheap labor, “free” trade, internationalists. Or in other words, they have been well bought by the big money interests that desire to control western governments.

And I guess at the end of the day, that’s the point. Conservatism has become a caricature - defined by the beholder but in the end meaning very little. It has also not been successful as a governing philosophy, largely because conservatism has not been implemented as a governing philosophy for at least 90 years.

If Trump wins it will not be because voters vote for conservatism. They’ve had decades of people like the Bushes, Dole, McCain, Romney, Graham et. al. talking about how they are true conservatives. They will vote for Trump, if the do, because they want to rip the reigns of power from the entrenched, closed Oligarchy that has ruled America for decades. If they do it, it will be to create a revolution that throws out current rulers out. It will not be to enact a conservative platform per se.


287 posted on 04/20/2016 3:09:31 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: Scott from the Left Coast

I think the conservative position has always been for border security. It’s not a knock on conservatism if someone like Rubio gets in and changes his position to the liberal one afterwards. That only underlines the correctness of the conservative position. I don’t think anyone’s running on cutting back legal immigration, other than refugees/Muslims.

Free trade, I’ll agree is a generally conservative position that Trump departs from. Conservatives are always against tariffs. Reagan and G.W. Bush both upset conservatives by enacting some.

If you’re just talking about ‘better trade deals,’ that’s one of those vague promises that everyone will agree with. Trump doesn’t seem to be arguing for no trade deals at all.

Trade agreements are at the bottom of the list of issues I care about. I have no concept of how many potential voters out there care about them or which party they usually vote for.

I don’t think you can analyze the history of conservatism as a governing philosophy in absolute, purist terms. We have certainly had governments that were MORE conservative than others and which have a good case to make that they got better results. Namely Reagan’s administration and Newt’s reign as Speaker.

Just as importantly, the Democrats themselves used to be more conservative on taxes, the military, marriage, religion, etc. Conservatives will argue that it’s the decline of conservatism in both parties and in the country as a whole that has led to the country being worse off. And we will also argue that to the extent the U.S.A. is performing better than other countries, it’s due to us governing in a more conservative way than those countries.


288 posted on 04/20/2016 3:58:59 PM PDT by JediJones (Looks like those clowns in Congress did it again. What a bunch of clowns.)
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