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Trump supporters file 'birther' lawsuit against Cruz in federal court
The Hill ^ | 02/12/2016 | Bradford Richardson

Posted on 02/12/2016 11:22:56 AM PST by GIdget2004

Donald Trump supporters have filed a lawsuit challenging the eligibility of one of his primary rivals, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), to run for president.

The lawsuit, filed Feb. 3 at a district court in Alabama, seeks a judgment "declaring that Rafael Edward Cruz is ineligible to qualify/run/seek and be elected to the Office of the President of the United States of America" due to his Canadian birth. Cruz was born in Calgary, Canada, to an American mother.

The five plaintiffs — Sebastian Green, Shannon Duncan, Kathryn Spears, Kyle Spears and Jerry Parker — are all backing Trump in the Republican primary, according to AL.com.

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...


TOPICS: Canada; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama
KEYWORDS: birthers; birthorama; cruz; cruznbc; nostanding; orly; repositorycruz; tinfoilhat; trump; trumpkoolaid; ufocrowd
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To: Springfield Reformer

Dishonest as ever, and merits no serious reply. FReepers can believe you, or they can read the cases themselves. Makes no difference to me. Breaking my “do not reply rule” for that short remark, so readers don’t take my silence as approval.


261 posted on 02/14/2016 3:38:21 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

Disappointing but not entirely unanticipated response. Convenient too. Most FReepers aren’t trained in reading the law. Only a skilled analyst could save them from my alleged “dishonesty.” But instead of responding to the substance of my claims, you attack the character of the messenger. Your choice of course.

BTW, to others who read this, I also invite you to read the cases and offer constructive criticism. I have found that even though I am trained in the law, a detailed discussion with good FReinds is fun and often leads to helpful new insights that I appreciate.

My true position on the eligibility issue is that the current court will probably never take it up, because of the political question doctrine, but if it did take it up, it would find in favor of Cruz, probably, but not without calling into question the reasoning of some of those earlier cases. In Bellei, there is this tension between the plenary power of Congress to speak to these issues, versus the reality that the system does seem to result in a “second class” form of citizenship, which the cases try to deny, but it’s just true. Perhaps it is unavoidable. But it would help somewhat if an amendment were adopted that cleared this up. Just sitting on the ambiguity isn’t the right path. IMHO.

Peace,

SR


262 posted on 02/14/2016 5:38:27 AM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer

IF Congress believes that citizenship at birth requires no Naturalization, then they have no constitutional authority on the matter.

Corrupt judge or no corrupt judge.


263 posted on 02/14/2016 10:11:22 AM PST by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: Springfield Reformer

Thank you for taking the time to explain this important issue-

[[There was NO direct affirmation in the holding or the supporting logic to the holding that Bellei was in fact naturalized.]]

That’s what I thought- others have made it appear that there had been a determination that Bellei was naturalized- at least that’s how I understood their arguments in various threads concerning the Bellei case

[[The Bellei Court even extends the congressional power to set conditions for native born citizens to retain their citizenship, citing Perkins v Elg.]]

Another pertinent point- and the fact that it uses ‘native born’ further establishes the idea that beyond a reasonable doubt that even native borns are subject to statutes in order to retain citizenship- Treason for instance is a law which strips citizenship of any citizen, NBC, Native, or naturalized if convicted- the act of treason is an act which strongly indicates intent to expatriate- and Cases like Belei were cases which showed the courts weighing in on ‘intent to expatriate’ of the plaintiffs- As you point out, requirements for born abroad of citizens is different, yes, but as you state, Congress has the authority to impose requirements to retain citizenship- They do NOT determine who is a citizen, only who can keep citizenship because certain actions result in a conclusion of ‘intent to expatriate’

[[this Court has said it will apply a more lenient standard in matters of “’immigration and naturalization.’’’ Ante, at 435, n. 11 (quoting Mathews v. Diaz, 426 U. S. 67, 82 (1976)). But that language arises in a case involving aliens. The Court did not say it intended that phrase to include statutes that confer citizenship “at birth.”]]

A very important point- the court’s decision had to do with those who are naturalized, not those, like you say, who are citizens at birth

[[The Court to my knowledge has never said, or held, or reasoned that statutes automatically conferring citizenship “at birth” upon the American child of American parents receive a more lenient standard of review (emphasis added)]]

Bingo- Courts have said however, from time to time, that there are only two ways to be a citizen, either by constitution, of by naturalization (and it’s what was said in the Bellei case I believe) which would, on the surface, seem to indicate that only those born on soil are citizens, however, as you point out subsequent cases have indicated otherwise, and that jus sanguinis, citizenship by descent, which is a sovereign’s right to pass along, is a viable source of citizenship

[[The definition in 1101 is upstream of both those, and Miller makes it abundantly clear that in 1101 Congress is saying it doesn’t see statutory citizenship at birth as naturalization.]]

Thanks, you have mentioned this to me before, but in different wording which I didn’t fully grasp at the time- this above makes it clear-


264 posted on 02/14/2016 10:26:42 AM PST by Bob434
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To: Springfield Reformer

Contrary to the assertions made, the intent of Congress is clear: the statute states “citizen”, it does not state “natural born citizen”.


265 posted on 02/14/2016 12:18:49 PM PST by Ray76 (Our gov has become hideously deformed by the hand of the Dem-Rep-Uniparty. They must be abolished.)
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To: Ray76
His post assumes the conclusion. Many of the statements and arguments that follow are absurd on their face. Same pattern to these arguments, over and over. Cherry pick some sentence or paragraph, spin some sophistry, and voila, the assumed conclusion is true.

Fools the rubes, that's for sure.

266 posted on 02/14/2016 2:59:39 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: fireman15
You apparently do not read the stuff that I cut and paste thoroughly,
because those FACTS PROVE THOROUGHLY, that TED CRUZ IS A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN !

TED CRUZ is by far, the MOST CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE we've got ! So there is the law for the time Ted Cruz was born,
AND HOW Ted Cruz's PARENTS fulfilled ALL those requirements of the law that time, for Ted Cruz to be a "Natural Born Citizen".
Ted Cruz did NOT NEED a Court and a Judge to "Nationalize" him.
267 posted on 02/14/2016 5:15:00 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

> Cruz did NOT NEED a Court and a Judge to “Nationalize” him.

So what? The naturalization statute did not require that. Cruz required a statute to naturalize him. There is no requirement that a naturalization statute require a judge or court. The statute states “citizen”, it does not state “natural born citizen”.


268 posted on 02/14/2016 6:01:33 PM PST by Ray76 (Our gov has become hideously deformed by the hand of the Dem-Rep-Uniparty. They must be abolished.)
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To: Ray76
Hey DUMMY !
Look at the FOUNDING FATHERS' DEFINITION of NATURAL BORN CITIZEN !



1st United States Congress, 21-26 Senators and 59-65 Representatives


As Hans von Spakovsky wrote in his Commentary "An Un-Naturally Born Non-Controversy":

The Naturalization Act of 1790, let's read it , too ( even though it DOES NOT APPLY) !

269 posted on 02/14/2016 6:29:13 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

Is that supposed to be a picture of the 1790 NATURALIZATION ACT?

A NATURALIZATION ACT repealed in 1795.

A NATURALIZATION ACT which does not apply to a person born in 1970.


270 posted on 02/14/2016 6:31:55 PM PST by Ray76 (Our gov has become hideously deformed by the hand of the Dem-Rep-Uniparty. They must be abolished.)
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To: Ray76
You really don't do ANY research, DO YOU, DUMMY ?
Also Notice the signature blocks at the bottom of this:



1st United States Congress, 21-26 Senators and 59-65 Representatives



271 posted on 02/14/2016 6:42:08 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

Zzzz.

The act in force at the time of birth controls.


272 posted on 02/14/2016 6:55:19 PM PST by Ray76 (Our gov has become hideously deformed by the hand of the Dem-Rep-Uniparty. They must be abolished.)
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To: Ray76
That's right!

273 posted on 02/14/2016 6:57:19 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

Keep relying on naturalization acts.


274 posted on 02/14/2016 7:00:28 PM PST by Ray76 (Our gov has become hideously deformed by the hand of the Dem-Rep-Uniparty. They must be abolished.)
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To: Ray76
That's right!
NOTE: nonjusticiable political question

Now, let's take a close look at the word "NATURALIZATION", its history, and FROM WHERE it was derived .
What is the root word of "Naturalization" ? Not only could the Founding Father define "natural born citizen", BUT ... THE FOUNDING FATHERS DID DEFINE IT !


The Naturalization Act of 1790, let's read it !


Take a look at the original one WRITTEN BY our FOUNDING FATHERS,
and VERIFY IT FOR YOURSELF in the list of NAMES of the members of our FIRST CONGRESS !



1st United States Congress, 21-26 Senators and 59-65 Representatives


Finally, read the latest from links provided by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), the government agency that oversees lawful immigration to the United States. READ IT VERY CLOSELY.
275 posted on 02/14/2016 7:00:54 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

The ONLY naturalization act the matters is the one in force at the time of birth.


276 posted on 02/14/2016 7:01:18 PM PST by Ray76 (Our gov has become hideously deformed by the hand of the Dem-Rep-Uniparty. They must be abolished.)
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To: Ray76
You have NO UNDERSTANDING of the word "NATURALIZATION", its history, and FROM WHERE it was derived !
You have no comprehension of the laws defining it.
What is the root word of "Naturalization" ? Not only could the Founding Father define "natural born citizen", BUT ... THE FOUNDING FATHERS DID DEFINE IT !
And you ARE refusing the definition of "natural born citizen" CLEARLY DEFINED by our FOUNDING FATHERS !


It was defined for the United States, BY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS !

The Naturalization Act of 1790, let's read it !

277 posted on 02/14/2016 7:03:07 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

Please pay close attention to this subtle point which is easily overlooked by zealots such as yourself: you are citing NATURALIZATION ACTS.


278 posted on 02/14/2016 7:04:20 PM PST by Ray76 (Our gov has become hideously deformed by the hand of the Dem-Rep-Uniparty. They must be abolished.)
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To: Ray76
FIRST, let's CORRECT that sentence.
The ONLY naturalization act LAW the matters ... is ... the one in force at the time of TED CRUZ's birth. So there is the law for the time Ted Cruz was born,
AND HOW Ted Cruz's PARENTS fulfilled ALL those requirements of the law that time, for Ted Cruz to be a "Natural Born Citizen".
Ted Cruz did NOT NEED a Court and a Judge to "Nationalize" him.
279 posted on 02/14/2016 7:05:35 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Ray76
I SAY AGAIN, DUMMY:
280 posted on 02/14/2016 7:07:20 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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