Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: JSDude1

In before the anti-Mormons on the site descend upon this thread...


2 posted on 02/10/2016 8:00:54 PM PST by Ripliancum (Mosiah 29:27. Look it up.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: Ripliancum

I am not a Mormon, and I disagree with your theology, that said I absolutely believe that evangelical Christians and Mormons should be natural allies politically!


3 posted on 02/10/2016 8:05:13 PM PST by JSDude1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies ]

To: Ripliancum
In before the anti-Mormons on the site descend upon this thread...


23 posted on 02/11/2016 3:48:27 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies ]

To: Ripliancum
In before the anti-Mormons on the site descend upon this thread...


Defend yer faith; Brother!


Boyd K. Packer in his address to Church Educators "The Mantle is Far Far Greater than the Intellect".
 
 Published in Brigham Young University Studies 21 (Summer 1981): 259-278.
 
 
In an amazing declaration Michael Quinn reports that Elder Packer told him when he was being interviewed for his position
at Brigham Young University that he has a hard time with historians "because they idolize the truth. The truth is not uplifting:
it destroys. I could tell most of the secretaries in the church office building that they are ugly and fat. That would be the truth,
but it would hurt and destroy them. Historians should tell only that part of the truth that is inspiring and uplifting."
 
 (This is a telling statement of Elder Packers repressed shadow material!)
 
In D. Michael Quinn On Being a Mormon Historian (And Its Aftermath),
ed. George D. Smith, Faithful History: Essays On Writing Mormon History (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1992), 103.
 
 
“The new traditionalists contend that objectivity is, in fact, impossible and that history should therefore be written with certain pre-understandings, including that God exists and that Joseph Smith was his prophet.”

24 posted on 02/11/2016 3:50:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies ]

To: Ripliancum
In before the anti-Mormons on the site descend upon this thread...


To balance out me; here a a LOT of MORMONs who agree...

... that the Book of Mormon is true, that Joseph Smith is a prophet of the Lord.




There are articles by LDS 'non-faithful' historians on difficulties they face, where one footnote linking other journal articles on the difficulties caused by Packer and 'faith-promoting' history look like this:

"For other (sometimes academic, sometimes personal) statements by historians of Mormon background concerning the writing of Mormon history, see notes 4 and 5 above, and also Leonard J. Arrington, "Preface," Great Basin Kingdom: An Economic History of the Latter-day Saints, 1830-1900 (Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1958), esp. viii-ix;
 
Marvin S. Hill, "The Historiography of Mormonism," Church History 28 (Dec. 1959): 418-26;
Klaus J.Hansen, "Reflections on the Writing of Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 1 (Spring 1966): 158-60;
Richard L. Bushman, "Taking Mormonism Seriously," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 1 (Summer 1966): 81-84;
Bushman, "The Future of Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Autumn 1966): 23-26;
Arrington, "The Search for Truth and Meaning in Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 3 (Summer 1968): 56-66;
Bushman, "Faithful History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 4 (Winter 1969): 11-25;
Fawn M. Brodie, Can We Manipulate the Past? (Salt Lake City: Center for the Study of the American West, University of Utah, 1970);
Richard D. Poll, "God and Man in History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 7 (Spring 1972): 101-09;
Hill, "Brodie Revisited: A Reappraisal," Dialogue: A [p.100]Journal of Mormon Thought 7 (Winter 1972): 85;
Hill, "Secular or Sectarian History? A Critique of No Man Knows My History," Church History 43 (Mar. 1974): 78-96;
William Mulder, "Fatherly Advice," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 9 (Winter 1974): 77-80;
Mulder, "History Is Then and Now: A Conversation with Leonard J. Arrington, Church Historian," Ensign 5 (July 1975): 8-13;
Mulder, "The Mormon Angle of Historical Vision: Some Maverick Reflections," and Marvin S. Hill, "The 'Prophet Puzzle' Assembled: Or, How to Treat Our Historical Diplopia toward Joseph Smith,: Journal of Mormon History 3 (1976): 13-22, 101-05;
Poll, "Nauvoo and the New Mormon History: A Bibliographical Survey," Journal of Mormon History 5 (1978): 105-123;
James B. Allen, "Line Upon Line," Ensign 9 (July 1979): 32-39;
Charles S. Peterson, "Mormon History: Some Problems and Prospects," Encyclia: Journal of the Utah Academy of Sciences, Arts and Letters 56 (1979): 114-26;
Charles S. Peterson, "Mormon History: A Dialogue with Jan Shipps, Richard Bushman, and Leonard Arrington," Century 2 [BYU] 4 (Spring-Summer 1980): 27-39;
Richard Sherlock, "The Gospel beyond Time: Thoughts on the Relation of Faith and Historical Knowledge," Sunstone 5, (July-Aug. 1980): 20-23;
James L. Clayton, "History and Theology: The Mormon Connections: A Response," Sunstone 5 (Nov.-Dec. 1980): 51-53;
Roger Elvin Borg, "Theological Marionettes': Historicism in Mormon History," Thetean: A Student Journal of History (Provo, UT: Beta Iota Chapter of Phi Alpha Theta, Brigham Young University, 1981): 5-20;
 
Arrington, "The Writing of Latter-day Saint History: Problems, Accomplishments, and Admonitions," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 14 (Fall 1981): 119-29;
Davis Bitton, "Mormon Biography," Biography: An Interdisciplinary Quarterly 4 (Winter 1981): 1-16;
Clayton, "Does History Undermine Faith?" Sunstone 7 (Mar.-Apr. 1982): 33-40;
Ronald K. Esplin, "How Then Should We Write History? Another View," Sunstone 7 (Mar.-Apr. 1982): 41-45;
Jay Fox, "Clio and Calliope: Writing Imaginative Histories of the Pacific," Proceedings of the Mormon Pacific Historical Society, Third Annual Conference, April 10, 1982, 12-19;
Ronald W. Walker, "The Nature and Craft of Mormon Biography," Brigham Young University Studies 22 (Spring 1982); 179-92;
Bitton, "Like the Tigers of Old Time," Sunstone 7 (Sept.-Oct. 1982): 44-48;
Melvin T. Smith, "Faithful History: Hazards and Limitations," Journal of Mormon History 9 (1982): 61-69;
Arrington, "Personal Reflections on Mormon History," Sunstone 8 (July - Aug. 1983): 41-45;
Smith, Faithful History/Secular Faith," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 16 (Winter 1983): 65-71;
Thomas G. Alexander, "Toward the New Mormon History: An Examination of the Literature on the Latter-day Saints in the Far West," in Michael P. Malone, ed., Historians and the American West (Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1983), 344-68;
Smith, "Faithful History/Secular Religion," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 3 (1983): 51-58;
Hill, "Richard L. Bushman: Scholar and Apologist," Journal of Mormon History 11 [p.101](1984): 125-33;
Lavina Fielding Anderson, "The Assimilation of Mormon History: Modern Mormon Historical Novels," Mormon Letters Annual, 1983 (Salt Lake City: Association for Mormon Letters, 1984), 1-9;
 
Arrington, "Why I Am a Believer," and Walker, "A Way Station," Sunstone 10 (Apr. 1985): 36-38, 58-59;
Grant Underwood, "Re-visioning Mormon History," Pacific Historical Review 55 (Aug. 1986): 403-26;
Alexander, "No Way to Build Bridges," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 22 (Spring 1989): 5;
Hill, "The New Mormon History Reassessed in Light of Recent Books on Joseph Smith and Mormon Origins," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 21 (Autumn 1988): 115-27;
Poll, History and Faith: Reflections of a Mormon Historian (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989);
 
Hansen, "Arrington's Historians," Sunstone 13 (Aug. 1989: 41-43; "Coming to Terms with Mormon History: An Interview with Leonard Arrington," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 22 (Winter 1989): 39-54;
 
Hill, "Afterword," Brigham Young University Studies 30 (Fall1990): 117-24;
David B. Honey and Daniel C. Peterson, "Advocacy and Inquiry in Mormon Historiography," Brigham Young University Studies 31 (Spring 1991): 139-79;
Gary James Bergera, "The New Mormon Anti-Intellectualism," Sunstone 15 (June 1991): 53-55;
D. Michael Quinn, "Editor's Introduction," The New Mormon History: Revisionist Essays on the Mormon Past (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1991);
Malcolm R. Thorp, "Some Reflections on New Mormon History and the Possibilities of a 'New' Traditional History," Sunstone 15 (Nov. 1991): 39-46;
Douglas F. Tobler and S. George Ellsworth, "History: Significance to Latter-day Saints," in Ludlow, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 3:595-98;
Richard P. Howard, Restoration Scriptures: A Study of Their Textual Development (Independence, MO: Herald House, 1969);
Richard P. Howard, "Latter Day Saint Scriptures and the Doctrine of Propositional Revelation," and Paul M. Edwards, "Why Am I Afraid to Tell You Who I Am?" in Courage: A Journal of History, Thought and Action 1 (June 1971): 209-25, 241-46;
Richard P. Howard, "The Effect of Time and Changing Conditions on Our Knowledge of History," Saints' Herald 120 (June 1973): 54;
Paul M. Edwards, "The Irony of Mormon History," Utah Historical Quarterly 41 (Autumn 1973): 393-409;
Robert B. Flanders, "Some Reflections on the New Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 9 (Spring 1974): 34-41;
Richard P. Howard, "The Historical Method as the Key to Understanding Our Heritage," Saints' Herald 121 (Nov. 1974): 53;
Paul M. Edwards, "The Secular Smiths," Journal of Mormon History 4 (1977): 3-17;
F. Henry Edwards, "Engagement with Church History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 1 (1981): 30-33;
Richard P. Howard, "Adjusting Theological Perspectives to Historical Reality," Saints' Herald 129 (Sept. 1982): 28;
C. Robert Mesle, "History, Faith, and Myth," Sunstone 7 (Nov.-Dec. 1982): 10-13;
Richard P. Howard, "Themes in Latter Day Saint History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2 (1982): 23-29;
Richard P. Howard, "The Changing RLDS Response to Mormon Polygamy: A Preliminary Analysis," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 3 (1983): 14-28;
Richard P. Howard, "The Problem of History and Revelation," Saints' Herald 131 (Oct. 1984): 24;
Paul M. Edwards, "Our Own Story," Sunstone 10 (Jan.-Feb. 1985): 40-41;
Alma R. Blair, "RLDS Views of Polygamy: Some Historiographical Notes," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 5 (1985): 16-28;
Paul M. Edwards, "The New Mormon History," Saints' Herald 133 (Nov. 1986): 12-14, 20;
W. Grant McMurray, "'As Historians and Not as Partisans': The Writing of Official History in the RLDS Church," and Roger D. Launius, "A New Historiographical Frontier: The Reorganization in the Twentieth Century," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 6 (1986): 43-52, 53-63;
 
Don H. Compier, "History and the Problem of Evil: Reflections on the Philosophical and Theological Implications of the 'New Mormon History,'" and Flanders, "Review," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 8 (1988): 45-53, 91-93;
Roger D. Launius, "Whither Reorganization Historiography?"; Paul M. Edwards, "A Time and a Season: History as History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 10 (1990): 24-50, 85-90; and Paul M. Edwards, "A Community of Heart," Journal of Mormon History 17 (1991): 28-34;
 
Leonard J. Arrington, "Historian as Entrepreneur: A Personal Essay," Brigham Young University Studies 17 (Winter 1977): 193-209;
Arrington, "The Writing of Latter-day Saint History: Problems, Accomplishments and Admonitions," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 14 (Fall 1981): 119-29;
Davis Bitton, "Ten Years in Camelot: A Personal Memoir," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 16 (Autumn 1983): 9-35;
Howard C. [p.97]Searle, "Historians, Church," in Ludlow, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:591."

So it may not be doctrine, but it makes a big difference if you're writing or researching LDS history, this 'faith-promoting' deal.

We even have faithful reviews of non-faithful books about writing faithful history published by faithful history journals: Gary F. Novak, "Review of Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History by George D. Smith," FARMS Review of Books 5/1 (1993).

 

 

BIG thanks be to Scoutmaster; for his work in compiling all of this data!      http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2831597/replies?c=102

25 posted on 02/11/2016 3:56:38 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies ]

To: Ripliancum
Mosiah 29:27. Look it up.

Good idea!!


 

Mosiah 29:27
And if the times comes that the voice of the people doth chose iniquity, then is the time the judgment of God will come upon you; yeah then is the time He will visit you with great destruction even as He has hitherto visited this land,

 

 

 

Yeah...

Sure...

 

 

 

 
 
The BIGGEST battle EVER recorded; and not ONE even teeny bit of evidence of it can be found!!
 
 


The Book of Ether

Chapter 15

Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle—Shiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combat—The Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with them—The Jaredite nation is utterly destroyed—Only Coriantumr remains.

 And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the awords which Ether had spoken unto him.

 He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.

 He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled thus far, every whit; and his soul amourned and refused to be bcomforted.

 And it came to pass that he wrote an epistle unto Shiz, desiring him that he would spare the people, and he would give up the kingdom for the sake of the lives of the people.

 And it came to pass that when Shiz had received his epistle he wrote an epistle unto Coriantumr, that if he would give himself up, that he might slay him with his own sword, that he would spare the lives of the people.

 And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.

 And when Coriantumr saw that he was about to fall he fled again before the people of Shiz.

 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.

 And it came to pass that they fought an exceedingly sore battle, in which Coriantumr was wounded again, and he fainted with the loss of blood.

 10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.

 11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.

 12 And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether.

 13 And it came to pass that Ether did abehold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr were gathered together to the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz were gathered together to the army of Shiz.

 14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.

 15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their children—both men, women and children being armed with aweapons of war, having shields, and bbreastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war—they did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.

 16 And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps they took up a howling and a alamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that they did rend the air exceedingly.

 17 And it came to pass that on the morrow they did go again to battle, and great and terrible was that day; nevertheless, they conquered not, and when the night came again they did rend the air with their cries, and their howlings, and their mournings, for the loss of the slain of their people.

 18 And it came to pass that Coriantumr wrote again an epistle unto Shiz, desiring that he would not come again to battle, but that he would take the kingdom, and spare the lives of the people.

 19 But behold, the aSpirit of the Lord had ceased striving with them, and bSatan had full power over the chearts of the people; for they were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds that they might be destroyed; wherefore they went again to battle.

 20 And it came to pass that they fought all that day, and when the night came they slept upon their swords.

 21 And on the morrow they fought even until the night came.

 22 And when the night came they were adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.

 23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.

 24 And it came to pass that they slept upon their swords that night, and on the morrow they fought again, and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields, all that day.

 25 And when the night came there were thirty and two of the people of Shiz, and twenty and seven of the people of Coriantumr.

 26 And it came to pass that they ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow. And they were large and mighty men as to the strength of men.

 27 And it came to pass that they fought for the space of three hours, and they fainted with the loss of blood.

 28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.

 29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.

 30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.

 31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.

 32 And it came to pass that aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.

 33 And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he afinished his brecord; (and the chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.

 34 Now the last words which are written by aEther are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am bsaved in the kingdom of God. Amen.

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/15

 

And yet the BOOK says...


Ether 14:22
And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead, but they did march forth from the shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children strewed upon the face of the land, to become a prey to the worms of the flesh.


30 posted on 02/11/2016 4:10:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson