Cruz's father: 'Check the fruit' before voting

WND ^ | 2/7/2016 | PAUL BREMMER

[TruthWillWin]

Talk about rotten fruit, where were you in 2008 before Obama wascelected ?

[altura]

I will always read a post that contains C.S. Lewis, but I’m not sure what your point was in the post.

[altura]

Good post.

Trump is a pretty big camel to ignore to ignore but it seems to be possible.

[trebb]

So you contend that Rafael Cruz Sr was not a Christian when he divorced his son’s mother (his second wife) ?

Never said that - said Paul started really bad and was changed when he met the risen Christ on the road - life changing is life changing - no matter how bad one wants to spin it in order to feel superior in the "most holy way"...

[LowOiL]

I will always read a post that contains C.S. Lewis, but I’m not sure what your point was in the post.

Probable because I have not followed this thread fully enough to honestly say I have been on top of it.

It means I will judge Trump, Cruz, and all the others the best I can and those saying not to judge things like Trump's strip bars in his plaza can kiss my butt. We are to judge rightly, and when I think "fast track" which Cruz voted for is wrong I will say so.

I will not overlook things like Trump's fruit. Like his support of his rabid pro-abortion sister whom Trump mused as a possible Supreme Court justice (but stopped short of outright saying he would put in place). Trump has fruit that shows his conservative views of today may just be just for show and that he may switch right back to his old views just as quickly as he switched to today's views.

Nobody is perfect of course. But I will not be fooled as easily as some here at FR. King David committed adultery and had her husband killed (placing on front lines). The Lord forgave him (someone is above asking forgiveness). But interesting I keep coming back to a theme few verses later.

"The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die. "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme.... 2 Samuel 12:13 (or "two Samuels" to Trump).

Trump gives great occasion to the enemies to blaspheme.

[trebb]

And speaking of the Apostle to the Gentiles, do you contend he made his living by starting companies to sell religion ?

I guess you also think Oral Roberts is scum...along with those who print Bibles and then sell them......or the Catholic Church that insists that tithing is its due and then which hoards money and riches (I was in Italy and we sponsored a Catholic orphanage - the Catholic Church supplied an old priest and a few Nuns, but wouldn't put a cent into the building/food, etc. - that either came from charitable donations or it didn't happen - we repaired a badly leaking roof, put windows in because there were gaping holes in the old walls, fixed toilets that were backed up or leaking all over the place, etc.).

You'd be better off donating your life to good causes vs. slamming others.

[af_vet_1981]

Never said that - said Paul started really bad and was changed when he met the risen Christ on the road - life changing is life changing - no matter how bad one wants to spin it in order to feel superior in the "most holy way"...

You implied it with what you wrote. The Apostle Paul never did something like that after he met the LORD. You compared Rafael Cruz Sr to the Apostle Paul by writing "Did you know that Paul (who started as Saul) killed Christians before he became a purveyor of God's Word?" after I wrote "Did you not know she is Rafael Srs second divorced wife ? Why is he still earning a living selling his religion ? " How else can you explain your comments other than an attempt to approve divorced men (or perhaps just one man whose last name is Cruz) continuing to sell their religion by claiming the Apostle Paul did something similar ?

[BlackFemaleArmyColonel]

“Talk about rotten fruit, where were you in 2008 before Obama wascelected ?”

Talk about rotten fruit, where were you when proper English and grammar were being taught?

[af_vet_1981]

I guess you also think Oral Roberts is scum...

I think Oral Roberts was financially successful in marketing his religion, a devolved branch of Protestantism. He only had one wife and did not divorce her. I have also pondered on the benefits of retiring someday in Newport Beach ...

Roberts had an impact on the American Protestant community. According to one authority, in conservative Protestant culture, his ministry had an impact second only to Billy Graham.[3][26][27] His divine healing ministry called for prayer to heal the whole person—body, mind and spirit.[28] Many labeled him a faith healer, but he rejected this with the comment: "God heals—I don't."[3][6] He played a major role in bringing American Pentecostal Christianity into the mainstream.[29] Even though Roberts was often associated with the prosperity gospel and the faith movement because of his close doctrinal and personal ties with Word-Faith teachers, his abundant life teachings did not fully identify him with that movement.[30]

In 1977, Roberts claimed to have had a vision from a 900-foot-tall Jesus who told him to build City of Faith Medical and Research Center, and the hospital would be a success.[31][32][33] In 1980, Roberts said he had a vision which encouraged him to continue the construction of his City of Faith Medical and Research Center in Oklahoma, which opened in 1981. At the time, it was among the largest health facilities of its kind in the world and was intended to merge prayer and medicine in the healing process. The City of Faith operated for only eight years before closing in late 1989, but the importance of treating the whole person—spirit, mind, and body—was conveyed to many medical professionals.[34][35] The Orthopedic Hospital of Oklahoma still operates on its premises. In 1983 Roberts said Jesus had appeared to him in person and commissioned him to find a cure for cancer.[36][37]

Roberts' fundraising was controversial. In January 1987, during a fundraising drive, Roberts announced to a television audience that unless he raised $8 million by that March, God would "call him home."[38][39] However, the year before on Easter he had told a gathering at the Dallas Convention Center that God had instructed him to raise the money "by the end of the year" or he would die.[40] Regardless of this new March deadline and the fact that he was still $4.5 million short of his goal,[41] some were fearful that he was referring to suicide, given the impassioned pleas and tears that accompanied his statement. He raised $9.1 million.[42] Later that year, he announced that God had raised the dead through Roberts' ministry.[43] Some of Roberts' fundraising letters were written by Gene Ewing, who headed a business writing donation letters for other evangelicals such as Don Stewart and Robert Tilton.[44]

Roberts maintained his love of finery and one obituary claimed that even when times become hard, "he continued to wear his Italian silk suits, diamond rings and gold bracelets—airbrushed out by his staff on publicity pictures".[14][24]

The CityPlex office complex, originally built as Oral Roberts' City of Faith Medical and Research Center in Tulsa. He stirred up controversy when Time reported in 1987 that his son Richard Roberts claimed that he had seen his father raise a child from the dead.[39] That year, the Bloom County comic strip recast its character Bill the Cat as a satirized televangelist, "Fundamentally Oral Bill." In 1987 Time stated that he was "re-emphasizing faith healing and [is] reaching for his old-time constituency."[39] However, his income continued to decrease (from $88 million in 1980 to $55 million in 1986, according to the Tulsa Tribune) and his largely vacant City of Faith Medical Center continued to lose money.[39]

Harry McNevin said that in 1988 the ORU Board of Regents "rubber-stamped" the "use of millions in endowment money to buy a Beverly Hills property so that Oral Roberts could have a West Coast office and house".[45] In addition, he said a country club membership was purchased for the Roberts' home. The lavish expenses led to McNevin's resignation from the Board. In 1988, Oral Roberts and his son Richard were sued for $15 million in federal court by patients at City of Faith Medical Center, claiming the two were frauds who did not visit or heal patients in the hospital.[46][47][48]

Wikinews has related news: Former Oral Roberts University Regent member speaks out His organizations were also affected by scandals involving other televangelists[3] and the City of Faith hospital was forced to close in 1989 after losing money. Roberts was forced to respond with the sale of his holiday homes in Palm Springs and Beverly Hills as well as three of his Mercedes cars.[14]

Oral Roberts' son Richard Roberts resigned from the presidency of ORU on November 23, 2007 after being named as a defendant in a lawsuit alleging improper use of university funds for political and personal purposes, and improper use of university resources.[49][50] The university was given a donation of $8 million by entrepreneur Mart Green, and although the lawsuit was still in process,[51] the school submitted to an outside audit, and with a good report an additional $62 million was given by Green.[52][53] Oral Roberts continued in his role as ORU chancellor, helping in the leadership of ORU along with Billy Joe Daugherty, who was named as the executive regent to assume administrative responsibilities of the Office of the President by the ORU Board of Regents.[54] Oral Roberts continued as the ORU chancellor until his death,[1] but in 2009 eleven months before his death, handed over the leadership of ORU to its incoming president, Mark Rutland.[55]

The Oklahoma Senate adopted a resolution honoring the life of Oral Roberts, and he accepted this honor in 2009 at the age of 91, seven months before his death.[56] The Oklahoma Association of Broadcasters (OAB) elected Roberts to the OAB Hall of Fame one month before his death.[21][57]

Personal life[edit] Roberts was married to Evelyn Lutman Fahnestock (1917-2005) for 66 years from December 25, 1938 until her death from a fall at the age of 88.[12][58][59] Their daughter Rebecca Nash died in an airplane crash on February 11, 1977 with her husband, businessman Marshall Nash.[60][61] Their elder son, Ronald Roberts, committed suicide by shooting himself in the heart on June 10, 1982, five months after receiving a court order to undergo counseling at a drug treatment center and six months after coming out as gay.[62][63][64] The other two Roberts children are son Richard, an evangelist and former president of Oral Roberts University (ORU), and daughter Roberta Potts, an attorney.

Oral Roberts died on December 15, 2009[65][66] at the age of 91. He had been "semi-retired" and living in Newport Beach, California.[67]

[af_vet_1981]

You'd be better off donating your life to good causes vs. slamming others.

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Matthew, Catholic chapter fifteen, Protestant verses thirteen to sixteen,
Revelation, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses eighteen to twenty three,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[TruthWillWin]

My question was addressed to the author of the article, not you.

[American in Israel]

Thanks for the effort to get it formatted,I do like Lewis, and Tolkin.

[Gene Eric]

Very good.

[trebb]

You implied it with what you wrote. The Apostle Paul never did something like that after he met the LORD.

How do you know what Paul did and didn't do after meeting the Lord? Perhaps you never read/thught about his lament about doing that which he would not do and not doing that which he would do - sounds to me like his sinful side was still winning once in a while and he understood that it was so - it tells us that even having met the Lord, a man is incapable of being sinless or Jesus would not have had to die - His death didn't make us perfect, as some seem to consider themselves, but rather it made us worthy in Him despite our imperfections.

Argue all you want but Jesus described you in the bit about noticing the mote in your brother's eye as if it was a nuclear blast while ignoring the log in your own eye - you probably would have picked up and cast the proverbial first stone.

The sins of the father will not be passed onto the son. Whenever I get to feeling like I'm all perfect and worthy to judge others on how sinful they are, I take a look in the mirror and thank Him for forgiving and abiding by my own sinfulness - you might consider trying it - it's enlightening.

[af_vet_1981]

How do you know what Paul did and didn't do after meeting the Lord? Perhaps you never read/thought about his lament about doing that which he would not do and not doing that which he would do - sounds to me like his sinful side was still winning once in a while and he understood that it was so - it tells us that even having met the Lord, a man is incapable of being sinless or Jesus would not have had to die - His death didn't make us perfect, as some seem to consider themselves, but rather it made us worthy in Him despite our imperfections.

I find this attitude toward the Saints typical of those denominations and sects that emphasize personal experience over true holiness. They disparage actual Saints so their saints can continue to draw large incomes. At least you concede Once Saved Always Saved is a false doctrine.

The sins of the father will not be passed onto the son. Whenever I get to feeling like I'm all perfect and worthy to judge others on how sinful they are, I take a look in the mirror and thank Him for forgiving and abiding by my own sinfulness - you might consider trying it - it's enlightening.

This thread was about the father. It seems to me you are contending for the sins of the father precisely because you fear they will be passed onto the son. Such masquerades for religion when one's religion is politics.

[trebb]

I find this attitude toward the Saints typical of those denominations and sects that emphasize personal experience over true holiness. They disparage actual Saints so their saints can continue to draw large incomes. At least you concede Once Saved Always Saved is a false doctrine.

I don't concede the once saved, always saved as false doctrine - Jesus died for all my sins - past/present/future. In Jeremiah, God talks about His New Coveneant (where I got the "sins of the Father..." bit. He tells us that under His New Covenant, He will forgive our wickedness and recognize our sins no more - did He lie or do your 'priests" tell you that can't be so because they want an extra mystical relevance that people think they need to be saved?

Also, what's with the specialness of so many saints (canonized by mortals)? Once we accept Jesus into our hearts, we are all Saints to Him. He also told us how to pray by giving us the Our Father - He didn't say to pray to the Saints (dead mortals who did some exceptional good) but told us to go directly to the Father because He walked the earth to give us that direct path.

The Bible doesn't give us several classes of sins with different consequences and which require different numbers of rosaries/prayers - the wages of any sin is death, not just the big ones. Per the Bible, the only unpardonable sin is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit - something I tend to doubt that one who has been saved can do even though his sinful nature is still alive and well.

Use your twisted logic all you want - it reminds me of how folks were castigated for having fallen from Grace in Galatians:

You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

IOW - those who think they can become worthy by doing/acting certain ways are spitting on the Cross....I believe and trust in Him and His Word - not in the word of pharisees and pharisee wannabes.....beat your chest and gnash your teeth elsewhere.

This thread was about the father. It seems to me you are contending for the sins of the father precisely because you fear they will be passed onto the son. Such masquerades for religion when one's religion is politics.

I know what I mean - you obviously have trouble grasping it - hence your putting your own thoughts down as what you think I think so you can step up on the stool to look down on me - I ain't impressed or worried about your thoughts except that you may convince others of non-Biblical tripe.

[af_vet_1981]

Also, what's with the specialness of so many saints (canonized by mortals)?

The Catholic Church believes that saints are ordinary and typical human beings who made it into heaven. In the broader sense, everyone who’s now in heaven is technically a saint. Saints are human beings who lived holy lives in obedience to God’s will and are now in heaven for eternity. The classification or title of saint, however, is a spiritual pronouncement that the faithful can be morally certain that this particular person is indeed in heaven; prayers to and from the saint are considered efficacious.

In the Catholic Church, only after death can someone be called a saint, even though while alive the person lived a saintly, holy life. Mother Teresa of Calcutta, for example, who was revered around the world by people of every religion, couldn’t be given the title of saint until after her death and only after a thorough investigation of her life and only after what the Church believes to be some undisputed miracles that took place through her intercession.

Catholic devotion to the saints is nothing more than respect and admiration for the memory of the deceased heroes of the Church. Just as a society honors its dead who helped make the world a better place while they were alive, Catholics honor saints.

Saints aren’t born saints. Saints are born sinners in the state of original sin and were sinners throughout their lives. Saints are ordinary people. They weren’t born with a halo around their head, and they didn’t glow in the dark. What separated them from those who weren’t given the title is that saints never gave up and never stopped trying to be and do better.

Instead of seeing or portraying saints as superheroes, Catholicism wants to present them as just heroes — ordinary people who made it to heaven. The idea is that if they could do it, so can you.

[af_vet_1981]

He also told us how to pray by giving us the Our Father

It is good to say the Our Father prayer.

[af_vet_1981]

Jesus died for all my sins - past/present/future.

Just yours ? So you could commit the most heinous sins now, not repent and receive forgiveness, and you imagine your future sins are forgiven ? Is that a special kind of Indulgence ?

Do you hold that the Messiah died for all Hymenaeus' and Philetus's sins past/present/future ?

[af_vet_1981]

The Bible doesn't give us several classes of sins with different consequences and which require different numbers of rosaries/prayers - the wages of any sin is death, not just the big ones. Per the Bible, the only unpardonable sin is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit - something I tend to doubt that one who has been saved can do even though his sinful nature is still alive and well.

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

First John, Catholic chapter five, Protestant verses sixteen to seventeen,
Revelation, Catholic chapter twenty two, Protestant verses ten to twenty,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James