Posted on 11/28/2015 8:56:00 AM PST by amorphous
“How Sunni / Shia sects eventually unite is a large piece of the puzzle. And when this happens, where will Russia stand in regards to Iran?”
Roughly 85% of muslims worldwide are sunni; the rest shia or offshoots of it. The majority of Shia are concentrated in Iran (by far), and then Syria (offshoots of shia), and specific parts of the Gulf states, Yemen, and Lebanon. The Sunnis are dispersed around the world, much harder to control or dominate.
Shia and Sunnis might come together every now then, but very seldom unite for any significant length of time. Remember it’s worse to be a heretic (which shia sect is viewed by sunnis) than being an infidel (which non-muslims are viewed by muslims).
Last but not least, why didn’t the Khomeinist Iranian revolutionaries take Russian embassy personnel hostage instead of American one in 1979-80?
Russians continue to keep a very close eye on Iran and are inside Iran as we speak, much more so than any other western, or even Arab or Israeli grps.
Thanks for the information. Stay in touch! :-)
My sense is that russians at present don’t view the mullahs regime as a dire threat. Nor do many Russian people. That’s not to say Putin doesn’t understand mullahs’ mentality. But I think Putin thinks he can control & dominate them if necessary for reasons I mentioned in previous comment. Real or not, the media in Russia rarely disseminate negative news about the iranian regime unlike the U.S. so public opinion in Russia is less hostile towards iran comparative to the U.S. - the other is a matter of balance of power in the region. Russia needs iran and vice versa. Given saudi et al alliance with America. That’s all I can say for now.
Sooner or later, IMO, Russia and Iran are going to have to make a decision about their continued relationship based on their religious leanings in relation to Israel. I'm pretty convinced which way Iran leans - it's Russia I'm uncertain about. I can't imagine true Judeo-Christian leaders aligning themselves with an Islamic nation, like Iran, over Israel.
There have been cases in the past, like Nazi Germany aligning with Muslims, but its leaders at the time were anything but true Christian. The most bothersome case, and I need further study on this, are claims the Roman Catholic church helped to create Islam and was responsible for thousands of Jewish deaths around the the middle of first millennium period.
Interesting times we live in...
You got me interested, where did you read that about RC Church and Islam?? It doesn’t seem plausible to me.
On the other issue, historically, even pre-USSR (Tarist Russia), Russians have waged war with post-Islam Iran, to a point of advancing as far down as cities like Isfahan in Iran, at least for a short while. Hence we see many Russian language and cultural influences to date in Iran, which have historical basis. I say this from personal experience.
Russians (Tarist or Soviet) have always had a very different approach to ‘managing’ Islamic countries or nations, especially Iran. They’ve tended to suppress the religious aspects and impose their own, or at least manage it such that it is gradually diminished or eroded. This approach in fact has been quite the opposite of the British for example, where religious freedom has been much more allowed or even further fed to flourish.
It is very doubtful that Russia would give preference to an Islamic country over Israel should push come to shove. I really do believe the current situation is more a matter of balance of power and economics than purely a religious based issue or struggle.
Typo: Tarist = Tsarist
I feel the same way. However Russian has provided material and technical assistance to Iran - perhaps not their latest technology though, as far as we know. Many of those who study eschatology believe Russia is part of the Gog, Magog federation. I'm beginning to doubt that, especially now that Turkey (which I believe is representative) and Russia are at odds (no pun intended). We shall see I guess.
I really do believe the current situation is more a matter of balance of power and economics than purely a religious based issue or struggle.
I tend to disagree a bit here. It's obviously more complicated than just a purely religious struggle. However, at the core of this I do believe you will find Islamic Jihad at work. That's the conclusion I've come to recently, after a considerable amount of time spent studying the history and goals of Islam. This also fits the prophesy of God stirring up the Medes against "mystery Babylon" in Isa. 13:17.
On the RC / Islam thing, you can find a lot of references to it by searching online. I haven't really researched it, just run across it from time to time while researching other history. It borders on tin foil conspiracy theory mixed with what was the cause of the Civil War complexity. I don't want to believe, but then I don't want to believe the church actually burned people alive - but that happened.
Here is a search to get you started on the RC / Islam thing. Let me know if you find anything interesting that gives credence one way or the other.
And thanks for your thoughts on the Russia / Iran / Israel thing.
Thank you. I’ll look thru the links end of the week. My workload is pretty heavy this week. A quick note I agree with you about Turkey and the other is Saudi Arabia or that location. I also think islamic jihad is very real. Later..
Amorphous - I read through the links you provided.
One thing I can note, and seems fairly constant throughout, is that Islam is a threat. I don’t doubt that.
However, we either destroy Islam (which can’t be done militarily to an ideology), or we do not feed it for our own advantage, or we just let it go - Islam was NOTHING until it fed on other religions, lands, civilizations, and people, from time immemorial.
Actually, I believe Islamic Jihad is very real. BUT, it could not and can not have any teeth, unless our governments keep feeding it, one way or another. The mentioned are mostly through western governments. Not only in Iran or Russia. Though, if one side plays the game, the other side will play it equally.
In Iran, there is about 20% (at absolute most) of population who believe in what the Iranian mullah official media and alike tells them. The rest really don’t care about religious stuff, nor about Israel; they really don’t see why they can’t get along with Israel; they care about having employment, having children, and really having a ‘normal’ life. I can’t cite any common Iranian in modern history ever being part of an Islamic Jihad. Though I can cite plenty Saudi Arabians, Lebanese, Jordanians, and so forth.
In sum, I only see Iranian Islamic regime (Shia) making inroads into the West IF the West wanted it & allowed it (this is significant). Currently the Iranian mullahs won’t play that game.
As for Putin and Russia, they know the above and work with the Iranian alliance. Simply said, I won’t lose any sleep over it. The Iranian (mad) mullahs regime aren’t mad. They are in fact very measured and sane (mostly). They simply want to keep their regime going, even if it means aligning with Israel, as both have done that in the past. The rest of what we read and hear in the media is deliberate and basically garbage.
About RC church and burning people alive... well, it did happen in parts, even in the U.S. - but that’s an entirely different topic. RC church burns people alive anymore.. well has not for few centuries. If they do, it isn’t officially condoned and those who do are nutjobs. And, witch-hunt hasn’t been unique to RC church either. The RC church certainly did not *CREATE* Islam.
Overall, my thoughts are: Don’t feed Islam, override it and it will gradually die. Very often we need to make choices in the West between fueling fire, letting the fire die naturally, or throwing water over it. Our choices have been wrong in the West. Unfortunately, we have let the fire rise higher and higher to a point that you need to put it out... mostly our governments are to blame - literally ‘a few awful people’ have done so.
The average American has NO CLUE how much of our tax money Obama has sent down Muslim sh*t holes while he has slashed the military, run the national up to an astronomical figure and denies a cost of living raise to our seniors, who helped make America the greatest country the world has ever known..
BILLIONS FOR JIHAD! Obamas 2009 Supplemental Appropriations for Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Pandemic Flu was revised and passed by the full committee. It gives billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars to countries and entities that support Sharia law and/or harbor, hide and support those who want to destroy the U.S. and our allies. Here...
Read the summary from David Obeys office that was quietly released last week with nary a word from any media.
$3.6 BILLION, matching the request, to expand and improve capabilities of the Afghan security forces
$400 MILLION, as requested, to build the counterinsurgency capabilities of the Pakistani security forces
AFGHANISTAN: $1.52 BILLION, $86 MILLION above the request WEST BANK AND GAZA: $665 MILLION in bilateral economic, humanitarian, and security assistance for the West Bank and Gaza
JORDAN: $250 million,$250 million above the request, including $100 million for economic and $150 million for security assistance
EGYPT: $360 MILLION, $310 million above the request, including $50 million for economic assistance,$50 million for border security, and $260 million for security assistance
PAKISTAN:$1.9 billion,$591 million above the request
IRAQ:$968 MILLION,$336 million above the request
Oversight: $20 million,$13 million above the request, to expand oversight capacity of the State Department, USAID, and the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan to review programs in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq
Lebanon:$74 million
International Food Assistance:$500 MILLION,$200 million above the request, for PL 480 international food assistance to alleviate suffering during the global economic crisis
REFUGEE ASSISTANCE:$343 MILLION,$50 million above the request, including humanitarian assistance for Gaza.
Funding for the UN Relief and Works Agency programs in the West Bank and Gaza is limited to $119 million (Note: Gaza = Hamas)
Disaster Assistance: $200 MILLION to avert famines and provide life-saving assistance during natural disasters and for internally displaced people around the world, including Somalia, Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, the Middle East and South Asia
Peacekeeping:$837 MILLION FOR UNITED NATIONS peacekeeping operations, including an expanded mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and a new mission in Chad and the Central African Republic
Department of Justice: $17 million, matching the request, for counter-terrorism activities and to provide training and assistance for the Iraqi criminal justice system
OBAMA GIVES YOUR TAX DOLLARS TO REBUILD MUSLIM MOSQUES AROUND THE WORLD! Here... #
The USAID's annual U.S. Overseas Loans and Grants, or "Greenbook," contains summarized data regarding U.S. foreign assistance since 1945, and detailed data for the last several fiscal years. Foreign assistance is listed by recipient country and organized by geographic region. Here.
And THAT’S just the tip of the iceberg.
THIS will blow your mind!! http://gbk.eads.usaidallnet.gov/ They should have 2010 up, but they don’t. That’s where you’ll find Obama’s largesse towards Muslim countries really go off the charts.
and
Here .
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Obama Increased Foreign Aid 80%; Spent 76% More on Foreign Aid Than Border Security cnsnews
CNSNews.com) - From fiscal 2008 to fiscal 2011, according to the U.S. Treasury, the federal government increased spending on foreign aid by 80 percent and, in fiscal 2011, spent 76 percent more on foreign aid than it did securing the borders of the United States.
In fiscal 2008, the government spent a total of $11.427 billion in international assistance programs, according to the Monthly Treasury Statement. In fiscal 2011, according to the statement, it spent $20.599 billion—an increase of $9.172 billion, or 80 percent, from 2008.
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