Posted on 11/27/2015 6:01:09 AM PST by TigerLikesRooster
Turkey's Erdogan warns Russia not to 'play with fire'
ISTANBUL
Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan warned Russia not to "play with fire" on Friday, but added he did not want to harm relations with Moscow, comments that look more likely to inflame than quell the dispute over a downed Russian bomber this week.
Relations between the former Cold War antagonists are at their worst in recent memory after Turkey shot down the jet near the Syrian border on Monday. Russia has threatened economic retaliation against Ankara, which Erdogan has dismissed as "emotional" and "unfitting".
"We very sincerely recommend to Russia not to play with fire," Erdogan told supporters during a speech in Bayburt, in northeast Turkey. "We really attach a lot of importance to our relations with Russia... We don't want these relations to suffer harm in any way."
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
Turkey didn’t need US cooperation. They have advanced air warning systems that can defeat Russian theater aircraft and advanced F 16 to shoot down Russian aircraft.
The Russians had repeatedly violated Turkish airspace, and were warned in kind. They, themselves, simply waited, warned and shot.
He believes Hussein can openly arm them once "it's on". Probably because Hussein told him so.
But what do I know about Muslim fire-play, anyhow?
In that war a Turkish infantry brigade fought alongside the US's 25th ID against Red Chinese forces and took 3,000 casualties.
This is not the Turkey of the Korean War. This is an Islamic dominated Turkey that has become part of the Islamic push for world domination.
This is not the Secular Turkey that Ataturk created.
Ours report Hussein's line or they take wild mercedes rides.
Which means the opposite is true.
Not at all. The facts speak for themselves. Given that the transit time of a jet aircraft in that little two mile wide "finger" of land projecting into Syria is 17 seconds, it is impossible for the shoot down to have been a spontaneous occurrence. Turkey lay in wait for that Aircraft with the intention of shooting it down once they had a technicality excuse.
That is "was intentional and planned in advance" is self evident.
Res ipsa loquitur. The thing speaks for itself.
He's furious that Russia is killing one of his Cash Cows and killing his religious as well as political allies. As far as him being "nuts" is concerned, he is an Islamist nut job who thinks "Allah's" will will be done. Their word for it is "Inshallah".
You and I are once again on opposite sides of an issue. Russian history indicates that the only sort of man that can rule that Nation must be a "STRONG MAN." Putin portrays a strong man because this is the only sort his people will tolerate in governing them.
Edrogan has made a serious mistake. Putin MUST make him pay, or lose his own power. This is not just an issue of diplomacy, it's personal. It has nothing at all to do with what is the most sensible, it has to do with revenge over a deliberate and power threatening personal affront.
Putin cannot over look this else his people will declare him weak and then they will topple him. This is a threat to his grip on power. He must be seen by his people as being a strong powerful leader, or they will toss him on the ash heap.
This is doubly bad because the shoot down was perceived as a treacherous stab in the back. It isn't just about the loss of face, it is about revenge for being back stabbed from a nation which did not declare itself an enemy prior to the fact.
It was a sucker punch from a non declared combatant.
Okay, now you are sounding ignorant. That tiny little finger of land sticking down into Syria has been in dispute since the 1930s. The Syrians claim it as theirs and their official maps show it to be part of Syria. In any case, pretty much the entire world acknowledges that a 17 second fly over of a strip of land sticking down into another nation's territory does not constitute a very good reason to shoot down another nation's aircraft.
The normal procedure is to escort an intruding aircraft out of the territory, but anyone who thinks this is about "airspace violations" is a simpleton.
Erdogan deliberately shot down this aircraft because he is furious that Russia is destroying his ISIS and Turkmen allies in Syria. Erdogan was just begging for a pretext to get away with some sort of payback on the Russians, and he thinks his alliance with the Western powers will allow him to hide behind our skirts while he throws rocks at the Russian bear.
This is not about lines on a map. Those were just a pretext for the Erdogan's payback for Russian decimation of one of his cash cows in Syria.
“The facts speak for themselves. Given that the transit time of a jet aircraft in that little two mile wide “finger” of land projecting into Syria is 17 seconds, it is impossible for the shoot down to have been a spontaneous occurrence. Turkey lay in wait for that Aircraft with the intention of shooting it down once they had a technicality excuse. “
You are partially correct.
The Russians had violated Turkish airspace many times. They simply had had enough after the umpteenth time they violated their airspace. They waited as Russian pilots continued and shot the aircraft down.
Putin got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and took a slapdown.
If your reading of history is that Russia has dominated the USA, your reading differs from mine.
What Russian history have you read ? Are you aware US Armed Forces were allies of Russia, and even served with Russian forces in the two world wars ?
Let us hope that Putin does intend to be more cooperative.
I hope Putin helps launch a cooperative nation called Kurdistan.
ISIS will be defeated,
By whom ? Erdogan ? Obama ?
but healthy relations with Russia will be good for everyone. Who knows, maybe even Russia's ally Iran will be forced to come around someday.
Iran respects Putin's Russia; you don't see Death to Russia shows on TV.
You lose none of my respect for that. ;-)
Putin MUST make him pay, or lose his own power. This is not just an issue of diplomacy, it's personal.
I suspect that you are correct in your suggestion that nothing is more important to Putin than the maintenance of his power. And, I do not believe for a minute that by running around with his shirt off that Putin ever tricked himself into thinking that he is some kind of superman. He seems to be in touch with reality.
That being said, there are lots of reasons to be critical of his leadership. First, while the rest of the world is recovering economically, the Russian economy is deteriorating. People offer lots of excuses for that, but I think he is making a mistake in believing that a kleptocracy is preferable to a more free market oriented economy. A nation's economy is very important and I think Putin has demonstrated a lack of competence in that area.
And, there are recent events. I think it was plainly a mistake for Putin to provide some of his drunken friends with rockets that would shoot down planes. He probably miscalculated and did not foresee that his friends would shoot down a commercial airliner and then loot the crash site. But, that costly miscalculation is hardly a sign of competence.
I suspect Putin knew that his jets were disrespecting Turkey's airspace and I suspect that he thought it was funny. I view it as another costly miscalculation.
I am not saying that Putin is not learning, but he certainly does not deserve the kind of adulation that some folks around here are ready to give him. I am hoping for improvement.
He is saying now that he wants to cooperate more with the West in a joint effort to defeat ISIS. That is a good sign. There is really not much of a future being isolated and allied with Iran and Assad.
“Iran respects Putin’s Russia; you don’t see Death to Russia shows on TV.”
Respect? Hell no. Russia is just another infidel nation to be conquered in due time to Islamics.
The only thing Iran respects is that Putin is willing to deal with an Islamic theocracy and sell it advanced SAM systems, nuclear capability, and ballistic missile systems.
I have no doubt that they have flown across that finger countless times. I have seen no proof that they have incurred further into Turkey than that little finger of land sticking down into Syria.
As I cannot contemplate any reason why they would need to fly over Turkey Proper, I suspect all such assertions of intrusion from Russian aircraft are related to that little tiny 2 mile wide finger of land that the Syrians also claim as their own territory.
Do you have any proof to the contrary?
Putin got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and took a slapdown.
I think Erdogan was attempting to retaliate against the Russians decimating his allies in Syria, and so he threw a sucker punch without warning. I think Erdogan will eventually come to rue that decision. Putins hold on power is contingent upon his not taking a slap down lightly.
I don't think Erdogan has a grasp of what he has just done.
Respect; America’s President Obama, who is recognized as a Moslem, is willing to allow Iran billions of dollars and nuclear weapons and they still chant “Death to America.”
“The only thing Iran respects is that Putin is willing to deal with an Islamic theocracy and sell it advanced SAM systems, nuclear capability, and ballistic missile systems.”
The correct answer. You get the prize.
There is no proof that the Russians actually violated Turkish space, other than Erdogan’s worthless word. In any case, the Russians apparently announced their times, missions, and flight plans. Turkey deliberately sent planes up to loiter until the SU-24 showed up. It is Turkey’s mess self-made. Try repeating the so-called warning the Turks claim 10 times in 10 seconds. Did the Russians know the guard channel the Turks used for this ‘warning’?
As for repeatedly violating Turk space, this was the first time as far as anyone knows - Turk claims not withstanding. Any other country would have had its planes escort the intruder out, but Turkey shot first. Why? It was not necessary, unless there was another agenda ... does not seem to me that Turkey would set up such an action without informing US of their intentions, thus there does seem to be some possibility of truth in the claim of US mil aid.
Having equipment and knowing how to use it competently are two different things - I have no idea what the case is here, nor do I know if the Turks have the equipment you claim.
There are not so many Russians who lived during WWII or WWI (which led to a bolshevik takeover), but there are many Russians who remember Afghanistan. Russians are not stupid. They know that they have limits like everyone else.
I am hoping that Russia and the West will cooperate more to defeat ISIS. I recognize that Russia's alliance with Iran is a problem, but hopefully we can get through that.
Please show one single post where I wrote thusly.
“Obama, who is recognized as a Moslem, is willing to allow Iran billions of dollars and nuclear weapons and they still chant “Death to America.†“
Obama has been working against US interests for 7 years.
But, he is simply allowing them the legal setup to do what Putin has been doing all along and worse.
Putin is actually selling them the nuclear items and ballistic missile technology to have a real nuclear capability and the S 300s to attempt to dissuade the Israelis from attacking that nuclear capability.
I understand the angst at our traitor in chief, Obama. But the hypocrisy and allowance for Putin to do far worse with the Jihadist mullahs in Iran, sends up my BS radar.
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