Posted on 11/26/2015 7:29:29 AM PST by rktman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Allied_invasion_of_Germany
“At the very beginning of 1945, the Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force, U.S. General Dwight D. Eisenhower had 73 divisions under his command in North-western Europe, of which 49 were infantry divisions, 20 armored divisions and four airborne divisions. Forty-nine of these divisions were American, 12 British, eight French, three Canadian and one Polish. Another seven American divisions arrived during February, along with the British 5th Infantry Division and I Canadian Corps, both of which had arrived from the fighting on the Italian Front. As the invasion of Germany commenced, Eisenhower had a total of 90 full-strength divisions under his command, with the number of armored divisions now reaching 25. The Allied front along the Rhine stretched 450 mi (720 km) from the river’s mouth at the North Sea in the Netherlands to the Swiss border in the south.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Allied_invasion_of_Germany
For the moment we’ll forget about Lend Lease and the great quantity of supplies that flowed so freely from America for years.
Please explain how you would have successfully defeated the Wehrmacht and invaded Germany with a maximum of twenty-five or twenty-six divisions, and without at least 55 powerful American divisions.
Either you are stupid or are ignoring my point. NOWHERE did I say the Allies didn’t need America or that America didn’t bring huge men and resources to the allied cause, as I already said, my reply is to the argument which imo you put forward that the Allies basically relied on American men and material. I am really not disposed to repeat what I said in the last reply, I really couldn’t have made it any clearer what my stance was and my point was.
For the moment, yes, lets also forget Reverse Lend Lease, in which the UK GAVE the US £1.2 (British) billion in supplies from Jan 42 to Sept 45. Oh you knew about that, though, yes?.
Yes, America gave the UK supplies. BUT Americans always ignore that CANADA was our biggest supplier of military material, not the US. Through Canadian Mutual Aid (their lend lease). And they also gave us $6 BILLION to be payed after the war. And that most of what Britain used in WW2, was, shock horror, British. And of what wasn’t, America was one supplier beside Canada, Australia, S Africa and the Empire-Commonwealth.
I/we DO genuinely thank America for its great help to the UK in WW2, but you were one of the many allies who helped us. Too often Americans like yourself think that help to Britain was America only. And too many Americans have swallowed the myth that Allied victory was mostly just an American victory with Britain and others trailing well behind. The power of Britain in the allied victory of 1945 has been far too long sidelined and crippled by myth and bad history.
Without British ships, planes, men, intelligence, science, invention, ingenuity and supplies, there would have no invasion of anywhere in Europe, no D-Day, no victory in Africa, Italy and Sicily. Without the British, no atomic bomb!. The contribution of the British to allied victory was immense. Every bit as needed and powerful as the US or the USSR.
No, the allies were NOT ‘mostly equipped’ by the US. They used their own material, with US supplies making up a small % of material. Contrary to myth, helpful but not crucial or life saving. The UK even turned down the 50 ship offer in 1940, only the half-American Churchill forced it through by personal decision.
Britain may not have been able to defeat Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy and Vichy France alone, but America could never have won the war without the British and the Canadians. And the Allies overall without others like the Indians, Aussies, Kiwis, S Africans, Rhodesians, black Africans, black Caribbeans, British HK Chinese, those of the British colonies of the East like Malays and Burmese.
Please ignore the opening four words of that last post. Apologies for my rudeness.
The US also received RLL from Australia/NZ, Canada, S Africa and the USSR. Approx 12-15 billion dollars.
Sure we could have. It just would have taken longer and cost a lot more.
While still overwhelming and crushing the Japanese, as we did.
With the help of much smaller UK, Aussie, New Zealander, and Canadian forces.
Apology accepted. Ignored.
I will grant you this:
The huge contributions to the war effort of the Allied nations other than the U.S. are probably vastly underrated by most Americans. Especially the war effort before 1944 and 1945.
In ‘44 and ‘45, of course, American power was decisive.
Don’t forget, though. When the war ended, we were nowhere near reaching our full potential power.
And the resources of pretty much all of the other nations, Allied and Axis, were more or less exhausted.
We could have done a lot more, if that would have been required. And that’s without even factoring in atomic weapons.
1—79% of ships on D Day were British or Canadian, 70% British, 9% Canadian, just 5% American. 50% of all planes on D-Day were British. Not to mention RCAF planes that day. So less than 50% of planes that day were American. It was also heavily British ships that landed American troops in N Africa, Italy and Sicily, it was RAF planes and RN ships who helped provide air and sea cover for American and allied armies all over NW Europe from 1942-45. From Dieppe to the Rhine crossings and victory.
Britain provided fuel for several American divisions in NW Europe via the British ‘Red Lion Express’. PLUTO, Mulberry Harbours, specialised tanks and vehicles etc etc....all British. And it was of course Britain who ran the SOE, supplied the European resistance, and in 1940 gave the US all its nuclear secrets for free. Britain had its own atomic programme called Tube Alloys long before the US. Without British involvement and supplies (parts of the bomb had to come from the UK), there’d have been no atomic bomb in 1945 or even 1946. Some of the material alone came from only places like Wales, not found in the US.
American and allied troops therefore relied on British genius and expertise to outthink the Nazis, and then British ships and planes to set foot in Europe and afterwards. Without us limeys, Americans could never have even have landed in Europe!. In 1942-43, when you wanted a landing in Europe (cue disaster) you didn’t even have one division available to do so!. Any 42-43 landing would be a British-Can landing.
Sorry, but you seem to think America had the resources from 1941 onwards to win the war alone. Complete nonsense. You really need to learn your history. America DID have huge resources, BUT not enough to fight and win alone. You didn’t have enough men, ships, planes and material to do so. NONE of the main players (UK, US, USSR, Canada) did. And lets not forget the USSR tied down 75% of all Germans. Their epic battles from 41-45 make ours small in 1944-45.
2—Japanese?. You DO realise that millions of British, Chinese, Australians, Kiwis, Indians, black and white Africans, Canadians, Free French and native Asians fought the Japanese?. The Chinese losing millions alone.
From India and Burma to the island hopping battles (you DO know Aussies and Kiwis fought in the Pacific battles alongside the US). That Britain had a Pacific Fleet that fought alongside the US Navy in the Pacific. That the US in the Pacific used British and Commonwealth equipment, from radios to Spitfires. Or that any invasion of Japan in 1945 or 46 had British and Commonwealth troops in the second wave and also the third wave, in large numbers, and the BPF as part of any naval landing/battles.
I can’t see now that you’ve made a fetish out of this, no matter what the totality of the facts might be.
Which means further discussion with you is completely pointless.
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