Posted on 11/08/2015 11:32:40 AM PST by SJackson
Family Research Council president Tony Perkins has been broadcasting his “Washington Watch†radio program from Israel this week, where he is helping to lead an FRC tour group. Also on the tour is former Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, who joined Perkins on the program on Wednesday to share her view that biblical prophecy is being fulfilled all around her and that it was more urgent than ever to convert as many people as possible — including Jews — to Christianity to prepare for the imminent return of Christ.
“Almost every article in the paper†has to do with conflicts in Israel, Bachmann said, “and it ties with so much biblical prophecy. This week really was about biblical prophecy in many ways. And we’re seeing as events are speeding up, events are speeding up so quickly right now, and we see how relevant the Bible is, and we’re reading our newspaper, at the same time we’re learning about these biblical events, and it’s literally day by day by day, we’re seeing the fulfillment of scripture right in front of our eyes, even while we’re on the ground.â€
“We recognize the shortness of the hour,†she said, “and that’s why we as a remnant want to be faithful in these days and do what it is that the Holy Spirit is speaking to each one of us, to be faithful in the Kingdom and to help bring in as many as we can — even among the Jews — share Jesus Christ with everyone that we possibly can because, again, He’s coming soon.â€
As a rule, it's best not to ask a Jewish believer these sorts of questions since rarely do you get the same (or correct) answer. Jews are divided amongst Reformed, Orthodox, etc., just as in New Testament times where there were the Sadducees, who rejected the resurrection, and the Pharisees who affirmed it. In the Rabbanical writings, the Rabbis clearly speak of an afterlife, and not one invented by eeevil Christians:
"The spiritual afterlife is referred to in Hebrew as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come, although this term is also used to refer to the messianic age. The Olam Ha-Ba is another, higher state of being.
In the Mishnah, one rabbi says, "This world is like a lobby before the Olam Ha-Ba. Prepare yourself in the lobby so that you may enter the banquet hall." Similarly, the Talmud says, "This world is like the eve of Shabbat, and the Olam Ha-Ba is like Shabbat. He who prepares on the eve of Shabbat will have food to eat on Shabbat." We prepare ourselves for the Olam Ha-Ba through Torah study and good deeds.
The Talmud states that all Israel has a share in the Olam Ha-Ba. However, not all "shares" are equal. A particularly righteous person will have a greater share in the Olam Ha-Ba than the average person. In addition, a person can lose his share through wicked actions. There are many statements in the Talmud that a particular mitzvah will guarantee a person a place in the Olam Ha-Ba, or that a particular sin will lose a person's share in the Olam Ha-Ba, but these are generally regarded as hyperbole, excessive expressions of approval or disapproval."
http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm
"The afterlife is a fundamental of Jewish belief. The creation of man testifies to the eternal life of the soul. The Torah says, “And the Almighty formed the man of dust from the ground, and He blew into his nostrils the SOUL of life†(Genesis 2:7). On this verse, the Zohar states that “one who blows, blows from within himself,†indicating that the soul is actually part of God’s essence. Since God’s essence is completely spiritual and non-physical, it is impossible that the soul should die. (The commentator Chizkuni says this why the verse calls it “soul of LIFE.â€)"
That’s what King Solomon meant when he wrote, “The dust will return to the ground as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.†(Ecclesiastes 12:17)"
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewish-afterlife-beliefs/
That’s about a 2000 year ducking of the question wouldn’t you say?
It’s a good thing we all have faith here. A guy could go sick with worry over lack of fulfillment of his prophesies.
We got a pretty good track record though. We've "finish[ed] the transgression," made "an end of sins," made "reconciliation for iniquity," brought in "everlasting righteousness" through Christ, anointed the holy one, and sealed up the vision, all before the total desolation of the 'city and the sanctuary' in 70AD! (Daniel chapter 9).
Pretty good track record, though you're pretty screwed if the "real" Messiah hasn't come around!
So it’s a sinless world?
“screwed” only under your theology.
The Torah prescribes our remedy for sins.
Rather, we all still await the Messiah and the eternal peace. Do we not?
It seems Christians have adopted a religion to try to deal with the wait in a different way. Totally understandable psychologically... Besides the bloodshed that is.
And so we wait.
They have been. The world has been blessed because of them. Can't say the same about muslims.
.
This is the role of the Noahide laws (ask Zionist Conspirator about that, he is a Noahide). FYI, G-d forbids us to proselytize.
You are right. Even if Israel had went out and spread the message of G-D, people would have taken that and corrupted it.
But the thought that comes back to me is King Nebuchadnezzar. He went insane because he didn't acknowledge G-d as being omnipotent.
If G-d made his presence known to this king through Daniel, why not the rest of the world? It doesn't mean these gentiles had to be converted as Jews but they needed to learn who the real G-d is.
us humans being fantastically imperfect beings and all.
Very true.
Of course, you and I disagree as to which particular person the Messiah will be, and a few other issues
I think what all this boils down to for me is that I'm ticked off at the state of the world and all the evil that's being committed. I see people abandoning their faith and becoming more and more secular. They lose sight of what is good and what is evil and tolerate demonic ideologies like Islam. I just want to see more people fight the good fight instead of staying quiet.
You cut off the relevant half which explains the messianic age.
I am a Jew and the Judaism core is life > all throughout the TNK. When you form your religion around death as reward, it will fall among all the other false man made religions.
You cannot change HaShem’s Torah.
Thanks. I'm sure that my part in that is very tiny, but on behalf of my co-religionists, past and present, thanks.
But the thought that comes back to me is King Nebuchadnezzar. He went insane because he didn't acknowledge G-d as being omnipotent.
If G-d made his presence known to this king through Daniel, why not the rest of the world? It doesn't mean these gentiles had to be converted as Jews but they needed to learn who the real G-d is.
G-d has His ways; we are not only not privy to them most of the time, but even if we were, we wouldn't understand them. He is a multi-dimensional Being with infinite intelligence, and we rather savage hairless apes can only glimpse a very small piece of His creation.
I think what all this boils down to for me is that I'm ticked off at the state of the world and all the evil that's being committed. I see people abandoning their faith and becoming more and more secular. They lose sight of what is good and what is evil and tolerate demonic ideologies like Islam. I just want to see more people fight the good fight instead of staying quiet.
I couldn't agree more. I would add Leftism and all of its variants to that "demonic ideologies" list of yours - it is based first and foremost on theft.
Regarding morality: it comes from G-d. The "innate" sense of justice comes not from some random mixing of organic molecules, but from our Creator, who imprinted it upon our souls. In Jewish belief, the essential good nature of the soul is placed in a necessarily limited human body that is subject to temptations as a test; actually, life as we know it is a series of tests, and we are blissfully unaware of most of them. Every choice that we make has some moral dimension to it. G-d does not expect perfection (otherwise, what would be the point?), just that as one goes through life and learns more that there will be a reduction of the imperfections. What all of these people who have removed G-d from their lives have done is nothing less than to have removed the source of all morality (or they've tried to, at any rate - few succeed anywhere near completely, and many of those who have done so are the monsters of our history - IMHO).
Note that it is also an important part of Jewish Theology that the Torah has within it the means to communicate G-d's ideas and ideals to ANY person from ANY culture from ANY period of time. It is most particularly NOT exclusive to the Jews, even though it was given to us. Our job was/is to live by it, to thereby set an example for the world, and to thereby help the world repair itself (tikkun olam). Note that the 3rd Temple is supposed to be a place for ALL peoples - not just the Jews - to worship G-d (though this worship will only come after G-d imprints knowledge of Himself on everyone's heart). Judaism as a religion is not a goal unto itself, it is a tool of G-d's to lead the souls of the world to a higher plane of morality while being handicapped with a human body and human concerns. At least that's how I understand things - I'm no scholar or authority on these matters.
I think that you will find that Greetings_Puny_Humans is not exactly what most people would call “open-minded” about these matters. He’s made up his mind, and no facts, argument or proof will sway him...which is sad, because ALL of us are imperfect, and ALL of us should learn more as we go through life - so as to improve ourselves and the world around us. Maybe he’s a good person - I certainly hope so - but open-minded he’s not. He will not be swayed by your statements.
I agree that discussing G-d and His ways is not bad, by itself - quite to the contrary. The problem, and the exceptionally bad historical results arising because of that problem, is what people do to each other when they disagree. Human nature is such that even well-intentioned people who have more power than those with whom they disagree will abuse that power; much more so will those who are not well-intentioned, but after power for its own sake. Jews, in particular, have historically gotten the short end of the stick in dealings with Christians in matters of religion - and THAT is why Jews are generally reluctant to (and, in some cases, outright fearful of) discussing these matters, especially the very idea of conversion.
As for me, I’m secure in my faith. No one will ever convert me to another faith, so I’m not worried about that - but knowing history, I’m not so thrilled with the idea of Christians speaking about converting the Jews, even if those people are extremely well-intentioned (like Bachmann) and have defended Israel and the Jewish people.
I hope that you, too, have a blessed day.
Who is the prophecy directed to? The people of the Messiah. Our sins are forgiven us, while yours, not so much.
What can I say? All of Scripture is inundated with the truth of the afterlife. All I can do for you is suggest that you prayerfully read the Torah. Please read it as though you were reading it for the first time without the prejudice of man's indoctrination overriding your thoughts. Please let The Father of Lights be your teacher and don't let pride rule. May He bless you with abundant truth. He will if you let Him.
Mmhmm.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Mmhmm.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
On the other hand, the quotes from the NT I had always taken as types and forsahadowings, not as reincarnation. "This is Elias" means "He is the man who was prefigured by Elias." "He is fulfilling the role predicted by Elias."
In much the same way, when a new pope is elected, the choir sings "Tu Es Petrus" -- "You Are Peter" --- but it does not mean the pope is a reincarnation of Peter, it means he is the successor of Peter.
I hear you.
[1] Be ye children of the Lord your God: you shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness for the dead; [2] Because thou art a holy people to the Lord thy God: and he chose thee to be his peculiar people of all nations that are upon the earth.
That’s completely dogmatic. Two opposing beliefs. What’s not in dispute is that we both wait. Me for many generations, you for one loooong generation (your NT says it will be in the deciples’ generation no?)
I wait comfortable in the knowledge that the scriptures have not been broken. You wait in the silence knowing that if the Messiah has not yet come, and yet your temple lies in ruins, the scripture is broken and no future Jewish Messiah can ever fulfill the scriptures.
The Book of Daniel isn't part of The Prophets (Neviim), and instead is Ketuvim (Writings). TaNaKh = Torah / Neviim / Ketuvim IN THAT ORDER!
I do every seven years as He commanded.
And I know for a fact His greatest gift to us is life. Death NEVER supersedes life.
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