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To: BroJoeK
Since you are the one initiating the contact, it is you who keep posting to me.

I am just responding.

Actually, science does prove things to be true, that is why we know what we know about how the world operates.

Those are called facts

What science can't prove is how the Universe came into being or how life began.

If raw material existed with God, it would be eternal like God is, that is just logical thinking.

It might be too simple for you.

180 posted on 11/20/2015 6:36:02 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: fortheDeclaration
fortheDeclaration: "Actually, science does prove things to be true, that is why we know what we know about how the world operates.
Those are called facts."

As I've said, you can invent whatever terms and definitions suit your fancy, just don't call them "science".
In actual scientific terms, a confirmed observation is a "fact", but even facts are not considered "proved" or "true", since it sometimes happens that new & improved observations will falsify previously confirmed "facts".

Likewise explanations -- hypotheses and theories -- are never considered "proved" or "true", only confirmed or falsified.

Again, you can call your own ideas whatever wish, just not "science", sir.

183 posted on 11/20/2015 6:54:04 PM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: fortheDeclaration
fortheDeclaration: "If raw material existed with God, it would be eternal like God is, that is just logical thinking."

So let's see what the Bible says about it:

Genesis 1: "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

Sounds to me like the Hand of a Potter, hovering over a lump of raw material (Earth) before giving it form, and filling it with life.

Genesis 2: "Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

"Dust of the ground" sounds like raw material to me.

John 1: "In the beginning was the Word (Logos = Plan)... and the word was made flesh..."

In this case, we are told the raw material for the Word was a human being -- Mary.

And the raw material for human beings was "dust of the ground."
And the raw material for dust of the ground was "formless and empty" Earth.
So, clearly, God uses raw materials for His most important works.

But, what about raw material for the Universe itself?
We are not told, and can't know, but one highly suspects that Light had something to do with it, since as Einstein discovered, light (energy) and matter are ultimately the same thing: E=MC2.
And God said, "Let there be Light" sounds to me like "let there be Energy", a pretty fair description, wouldn't you agree, of the very first instant of what science calls, "The Big Bang".

Bottom line on raw material: God is not ashamed to use it, when that fits His great Plan.

184 posted on 11/21/2015 3:18:09 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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