Dear America, please don’t choose Donald Trump (Daniel Hannan)

CAPX ^ | 13 October 2015 | Daniel Hannan

[the scotsman]

1-—No, the average punter really isn’t. The media certainly is, to the point there have been backlashes as people are sick of OTT US election coverage or celeb news. The average Brit, like myself, likes the US, millions of us visit and holiday there and even make new lives there. If the UK is obsessed with anything, its football, X Factor and Coronation St/Eastenders. Interest in the US is one thing, obsession is another. We happily watch your films and TV, listen to your music, but obsessed no, I agree the UK media is, right or left wing.

2—I am on FR only for the UK news you post. I am on this thread because it is under the UK section of FR. I post on FR on UK issues and also on history, culture and the occasional European thread. I don’t post on domestic US political threads, as its none of my business who you vote for. I posted here because the thread relates to a British politician (whom btw I agree shouldn’t be passing comment). Had Danny Boy been American, I wouldn’t have posted.

As FR (and if any other similar forum) has a UK section, I am entitled to join and join the discussion about my country. And if necessary to defend it, correct lies and myths. As I have done here for nearly a decade and also on RightNation since Dec 2003.

And I am not spewing my opinions. The only spewing is you spewing venom in my direction.

3—Am I or any Brit here or elsewhere stopping you joining any UK forums?. Go on, join some. Seriously. It is good to get other perspectives.

I am also a member of the very large UK forum ‘Digital Spy’ (also member of countless UK sports/culture forums from British guns or Glasgow Rangers to British films and music), and on that site (founded 2001) there are many American posters, both UK based and US based, many have been members for years and are amongst the best known and respected posters there. Many of us Limeys have become friends with them over the years. I/we like their viewpoint in the UK and UK issues, from a foreign/US standpoint. There are also a few Canucks, Aussies, Kiwis, Africans etc.

4—You think us backward Limeys aint never done heard of the guy until recently?. Trump has been a well known figure in the UK since the 80s. Oh, and he is the son of a Scottish mother, and owns property in my very own county. If we are playing this silly game. Scottish and British people know as much about him as Americans do. The man has been dealing in business in the UK for decades, and is famous/infamous for his business deals and purchases in the UK, mostly notably THAT golf course in the north of Scotland.

What would I know?. What the hell would you or anyone know about him?. None of us here have ever worked for him, or probably even met him?. You think that’s he is one of you means you lot know him better?.

[central_va]

Since when is offshoring and de industrialization, to make a few stock holders richer, a Conservative value? That circle should be neon green.

[central_va]

I can’t support Cruz anymore since reading how he’s for the HB1 visas program.

I cannot support a Cheap Labor Express chump like Cruz.

PS: It is H-1B.

[miss marmelstein]

You already shot your mouth off about US politics when you said Trump would not make a good president. You know nothing about Trump unless it’s the typical BBC/Channel 4 bull. I, in fact, know a great deal about Trump. I was even born in one of his father’s hospitals - although it is now owned by the son. He has been on my radar for 45 years because he dated friends of mine from college. I can tell you what he liked to eat back in the 70s and where he liked to take girls for dinner. (They found him a little boring, actually.) I just saw him at the Trump Tower about 6 weeks ago, fighting off American and European tourists. I can tell you all about his fight for justice in the Central Park Jogger case, his gilding of General Sherman, his wife’s bad management of The Plaza and his building of Wollman’s Rink and his lousy marriage to Marla Maples who I have met on a number of occasions. Nice woman.

Trump has an excellent - truly excellent - reputation as an employer. If he sucked, the media would be filled with stories about his firing people or telling women to have abortions - as Bloomberg did. I’m only sorry I didn’t apply for a job with his outfit when I was younger but being burnt when I worked for Douglas Elliman, I stayed far away from that line of work.

You can scan the comments section from the Daily Fail to the Express to the Sun to The Telegraph to the Guardian to the Independent to Facebook and see the obsessiveness with which Brits study the USA. Try to find anything comparable to Americans drooling over Great Britain. Ridiculous!

[9YearLurker]

Exactly—the media ceel entitled to insult away, without their targets fighting back.

[exit82]

Miss M, Thanks for the background.

As a New Yorker, you have seen a lot of Trump up close and personal.

I am originally from NJ, and have been in the commercial RE field, so I always admired Trump for his work.

I worked in the corporate world; Trump had his own company.

I agree that if Trump was so horrible, there would be people coming out of the woodwork to embarrass him.

Seems the opposite is happening. Even his ex-wife Ivana says he would be great President.

That is high praise indeed.

[miss marmelstein]

Yes! The man has his faults but he has so much pizzazz, humor (of the old-fashioned NYC Jewish-American kind despite his wasp-y background) and intelligence, he is a breath of fresh air during this season. I’m hoping he teams up with my hero, Ted Cruz.

One thing I left out in my rant: his transforming of the west side. Now, I have troubles with some of that but no one can take away his ability to make stuff happen. He is the Robert Moses of our time.

[exit82]

Good analogy to Robert Moses—have not heard that name in some time.

Another visionary and master-builder.

[MIA_eccl1212]

Because of this article I’ve determined that I must vote for Donald Trump... And vote for him twice.

[miss marmelstein]

Yes; to see some of the designs of his highways - unfortunately many which have fallen onto hard times - is to see real beauty in infrastructure. He had quite an eye.

That said, I don’t always agree with master-builders. Not too many people know of Trump’s demolishing of the beautiful Bonwit Teller store which was replaced with Trump Tower. That rankled me for a number of years - and if he makes it into the White House, he’s going to have to be limited in what changes he can make.

But, setting that aside, I think he will make a very fine and interesting president. That he will upset our staid, prissy friends across the pond, with his Jewish humor and common sense is another plus.

[x]

There is a demographic that likes to talk about foreign politics, about Cameron and Corbyn or Harper and Trudeau. If Britain or Canada could claim to be the most powerful country in the world even more Americans would take an interest in who they elect.

It might be useful for more people to find out something about Hannan before posting. By the standard of English politics, he's a very conservative guy -- and conservative in a very American way, that is, more libertarian than old school Tory fuddy-duddy or technocratic moderate.

It's a little confusing sometimes. If he's friendly with US politicians -- even Ron Paul -- the assumption is that he's some sort of neocon, but that doesn't seem to be right. Anyway, he's no great fan of mass immigration, Islamism, or Eurocentrism (even though he is in the European Parliament).

On gay marriage, he's where the rest of his party is. On drug decriminalization, his policy is a little more complicated than just favoring legalizing heroin: "I'd start with cannabis, and if that worked I wouldn't in principle be against decriminalising heroin." Say what you will about him, he's a little more thoughtful -- and even principled (in a libertarian way) than many other politicians.

[the scotsman]

So you know him second hand. Congrats. Born in a Trump family hospital?. Wow. I once pissed in the same urinal as Tony Blair.

I said that I thought I he’d be a bad choice, I also prefaced that with the remark ‘this worthless Limey’, which means I know my opinion is worthless. As I am not American.

Yes, I said and agree he is an outstanding businessman. I like the guy, I jusy think hes not suited to be a politician and frankly the man is wasted as President. He’d be better as Business Secretary, use the man’s skills to boost the economy.

Lets be blunt, most comments about the US from the UK are none too complementary. What should be the ‘shining light on the hill’ is to be brutally frank seen as the poster child for how NOT to run a society. America should be the example to follow, sadly too often it is. The opposite way. And perhaps the Limeys, Yooros and assorted furrners criticise the US because we weary sometimes of the uber-patriotism, arrogance and tub-thumping that eminates from the US. So maybe people this side of the big water just like a bit of schadenfraude.

Listen, take it as a compliment. Do you think anyone LIKED the British when we were the superpower on earth for over 200 years?. No, but we were respected. America remains a superpower and the big dog gets the flak. You know your Oscar Wilde. Remember what he said about being talked about. When nobody attacks America, THEN worry.

[miss marmelstein]

Can’t you play in traffic and leave your fellow freepers alone?

[miss marmelstein]

Why should I give a good goddam what another Tory Brit thinks of America? The Tories don’t like America any more than the Laborites do. If he doesn’t like mass immigration, bully for him. Let him work to clean up Rotherham and forget about American problems. Of course, that’s too hard. Better to sit back and castigate a country far away.

[Heart-Rest]

"On gay marriage, he's where the rest of his party is."

And that kind of argument is persuasive for you?   Would you also say that all of Stalin's purges (murders) were okay, because the rest of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union agreed that those purges were okay?

======================================

"On drug decriminalization, his policy is a little more complicated than just favoring legalizing heroin: 'I'd start with cannabis, and if that worked I wouldn't in principle be against decriminalising heroin.'"

Does that sound like a good, sound, wise way of thinking?   Even ignoring all the problems that have begun to pop up in those places where cannabis has been legalized (especially with children - Google 'children and problems with legalizing cannabis' without the quotes), to jump from legalizing pot to legalizing heroin is like equating the over-the-counter sale of "caffeine" and "Sominex" with the over-the-counter sale of what are currently prescription drugs, "amphetimines" and "barbituates".   They are very different things, and the former should in no way be used to foolishly try to justify the latter.

[x]

If I recall correctly, British drug policy is different from the US.

There's long been a notion of providing addicts with their drugs without making them available to the broader public.

I'm not saying I agree with such a policy, but "decriminalizing" heroin wouldn't necessarily mean making it available to the general public or to children.

If you're angry at Hannan for attacking Trump and for "mildly favoring" gay marriage, what happens when Trump lets down the mask and admits he doesn't have any strong objections to it either?

[Heart-Rest]

"If you're angry at Hannan for attacking Trump and for "mildly favoring" gay marriage, what happens when Trump lets down the mask and admits he doesn't have any strong objections to it either?"

Like I said, I'm angry with him trying to butt his nose into our elections, which are none of his business.

His views on pervert civil unions and on legalizing heroin are clear indications of the kind of person he is, and on the dismal quality of judgment he displays.

[Covenantor]

He is the Robert Moses of our time.

Nope.

Robert Moses was a government autocrat.

Trump is a private developer risking his investment within the legal zoning constraints governing private development. In addition, his projects involve required public presentation to local residents to answer their questions. Locals do have the power to affect project changes and project approval is not automatic. Robert Moses in contrast was a government super steamroller, bending and breaking the normal constraints on NYC government.

In the instances of zoning mandated amenities, Trump provided them beyond the letter of the law at the initial proposal stage, usually with the locals acceptance while negotiating minor demands. This process usually required several such public meetings.

My comments are based on the regulations in effect at the of my involvment with the urban planning and design firm working for Trump. Have no idea how such have evolved since.

Robert Caro's book on Robert Moses provides insight into the man and his effects on NYC and environs.

[miss marmelstein]

I only meant his impact on the look of NYC. Trump has certainly transformed the west side (highway) in a way that Moses transformed the Bronx. Not necessarily in a good way for either of them or the people who lived in those neighborhoods. The means to which they achieved their goals may have been very different. I read Caro’s book decades ago. It was fascinating. I give Moses props for Jones Beach.

[DoughtyOne]

Budget, Spending & Debt
Civil Liberties
Education
Energy & Environment
Foreign Policy & Defense
Free Market
Health Care & Entitlements
Immigration
Moral Issues
Second Amendment
Taxes, Economy & Trade

Budget: Cruz has made massive financial deals, has put tens of thosuands of people to work, has run a billion dollar business, and protected a bottom line.  Next flight of fantasy...
Civil Liberties: Trump has said he'll round up and deport illegal immigrants, build a wall that is 60 feet tall along our border.  This results in his red marker on civil liberties.  No sale.
Free Market: The "FREE MARKET"...  Nothing in life is free.  The cost of this "FREE MARKET" has been tens of millions of U. S. jobs.  Trump wants to bring them back.  That warrants a red marker.  LOL
Health Care and Entitlements: Trump has proposed a private sector replacement of Obamacare.  He wants to reduce entitlements as part of getting the budget under control.  This red marker is simply proposterous.
Moral issues:  What moral issues?  Good grief.  Name one moral issue Trump has a problem with.
Second Amendment:  This is simply a fraud.  Trump has a paper on Second Amendment rights, and it's recognized as a good one.
Taxes, Economy, and Trade:  Trump's tax position is good.  His economic experience is second to very few U. S. Citizens.  His trade view are more solid than any other candidate's.

In Cruz's favor, his free market mark isn't deserved either.

Trump is the go to guy because of his economic experience.  He is solid on other issues as well, but second to illegal immigration, our national debt and related matters are vitally important and need to be addressed.  Trump is the only candidate with the experience necessary to do that.

Cruz supporters are pleased to drop this bomb on the forum.

It isn't an accurate display on Trump.  As such it's actually a smear on Cruz when his supporters tout it as a reason to support Cruz.  What they should be doing is pointing out the obvious flaws in this ranking.  And RANK is the proper word here....