America Needs to Let Go of Its Reverence for the Bachelor's Degree

The Atlantic ^ | 10/2015 | MARY ALICE MCCARTHY

[knarf]

yes/no ..... Patriots are by and large Conservative and if Trump (or ANYone R ) can coelesce our nation, the R brand could be viable

Personally I think it's a small argument not worth the effort

[Yaelle]

I have a master’s degree and I can’t get a job as a clerk in a pharmacy. No one will hire me. I could get a million jobs teaching ABA to kids with autism but I can only work when my kids are at school and those jobs are all after school and weekends. I’m feeling a bit sour about degrees altogether these days.

[Snickering Hound]

[Buckeye McFrog]

Megadittoes. Dennis Prager just had an excellent segment on his show about this. Employers driving the student debt crisis for insisting on a bachelors degree with no good reason.

Falling prey to propaganda from the Educrat Establishment that these people pop out of universities fully trained at no cost to them.

[conservativeimage]

College is a lie. I believed a lie. My family, my pastor, my mentors all told me lies. "Go to college. Get the career you want. Get a higher paying job." All lies, but they didn't know. My parents and grandparents created an incentive to go to college by dangling a fund in front of me that could be used for nothing else. What a joke. Years of fraud. I believed I would be allowed to develop the skills I wanted in college. Wrong. I believed I could learn what I wanted to learn in college. Wrong. The 20th Century anti-tradition philosophy poisoned everything. My professors rejected all of my sincerest efforts. "You can't do that," they said. I had to conform to nonconformity. College is where those who can't teach you can't. Their relentless efforts to make me doubt myself, my talent and what I knew was right and beautiful in the world had an effect: a stomach ulcer and lasting depression. College makes you stupid. I graduated but was defeated. Consequently I lost my family, my car, my job, my home and my cat. The only thing I got from college was ten years older and thousands of dollars in debt. There's nothing I didn't learn in college that I couldn't have learned from the internet ten years earlier and for tens of thousands of dollars cheaper. Now I'm a homeless truck driver. I work ninety hours a week. I get four days off a month. I have nothing. I have nobody. I am living an unfulfilled life. College is where promise is withheld. College is where dreams and talent go to die. Don't do what I did, kid. Don't follow the rules your whole life. Think and do for yourself.

[minnesota_bound]

Potential employer: “What BS degree do you have?”
Me: “I am pretty good in all forms of BS”
Potential employer: “You are management material”

[Myrddin]

My BA in Molecular Biology from Revelle College, USCD came with a strong background in math, physics, biology, chemistry and writing skills. The options for employment were somewhat limited in 1976 without pursuing the field to a PhD. The broad preparation made switch to CS/EE pursuits very easy. I've made a great living as software engineer and I can competently design my hardware to the component level. I finished that degree in 2.5 years at age 19.

The guy who spent 6 years pursing a degree in political science was playing professional student to avoid having to earn a living. He was avoiding work by hiding in school. When graduation day arrived, his hiding place was gone. His attitude didn't change. He's still hiding from work and doesn't have skills that anyone really wants.

[PATRIOT1876]

So many people get out of college and can't get a job for a very long time. Certainly not a good paying job in their field.

I would urge any young person to go to a trade school or even earn a two year degree in something that is in demand rather than go four years and not be able to get a job.

Besides, the trades pay pretty well. Better than alot of people get with 4 year degrees.

[Myrddin]

I could still use my BA in Molecular Biology today, but the math skills acquired in the process of earning the BA have been invaluable. I had to wrap my head around doing digital signal processing as part of my software tasking. It was an easy transition. Another assignment required some fairly intricate trigonometry. Again, no big deal. I did take the GRE and department exam for graduate work at SDSU in microbiology. I erred in pursuing grad school as aggressively as my BA. 16 units of grad work and 42 hours of employment each week rewarded me with pneumonia that nearly killed me.

[Albion Wilde]

Thoughtful article. But what she is really writing about and doesn’t know it is the death and offshoring of the American manufacturing economy, and the greed and overregulation of the corporate business world, where all kinds of non-nerds could once have found gainful employment.

[Myrddin]

In my current project, an engineer needs to be fluent in C, C++, Ada, FORTRAN, Java and Javascript. HTML/CSS is expected as well as competency in UNIX/Linux including use of editors, shell scripting, X11/Motif, ESRI mapping tools and APIs, Oracle database embedded access. That's just the tools. Competency in the customer's application is necessary as well. Damn few candidates can step up to the plate with the necessary skills AND pass the security clearance required for the position.

[BuffaloJack]

> Agreed.
> There aren’t too many unemployed with:
> BSME
> BSEE
> BSCE
> MSChE
> BSPetE
> BSNE
> degrees....
> I’ll let Google tell anyone reading what those mean...

In 45 years, I’ve never been unemployed for more than a few weeks.
I have BSEE, BSME, BSChE & BSCompSci.
My oldest daughter has BSCompSci and BSNursing and she has no problem getting a job.
My youngest has BS in communications and she’s long term unemployed.

[OregonRancher]

Back in the ‘60’s when I was still in aerospace, Bendix Corp. started an apprenticeship program for tool and die makers, the cream of the machinist clan. It was a four year program, two nights after work and alternate weekends, free to any of the young men who worked at the main plant.
One guy finished the program before it was shut down.
He moved to LA, went job shopping, and made over $100,000 his first year. He was in such demand that the big boys had bidding wars over his time.

Another story from Bendix: The built a facility for retired machinists; shuffleboard, pool tables, you name it, plus a complete machine shop. Young engineers would come in to get advice and help with advanced projects, and the retired machinists would make a few bucks. Everyone was happy, old timers passing on priceless experience to young engineers and budding machinists. Union said NO! It closed.

[Mathews]

It’s true. I am a maintenance superintendent who makes a six figure salary. I have SEVERAL hourly employees who make more than I do. They kill themselves on overtime, but they do make a ton of money. Mechanics, electricians and electronic technicians are worth their weight in gold!!!

[Myrddin]

During my year in grad school, I worked 42 hours a week at Radio Shack. #2 salesman in San Diego county. I leveraged my First Class Radiotelephone license with Ship's RADAR endorsement to develop a fairly large regular customer base. I left Radio Shack to work for Marine Electric Company using my licenses to perform electronics installation and repair work for the San Diego tuna fleet plus work boats, freighters, pleasure boats and base stations. I had to put up with joining IBEW to keep the union rats from walking off the job when I had work inside NASSCO and other ship yards in San Diego.

The tuna fleet was failing, so I moved on to Pacific Telephone as a Toll Central Office Equipment engineer. Concurrently, I was teaching embedded systems at Southwestern College. That generated enough income to earn a private pilot's license. Eventually I left pencil pushing engineering and started writing software at PacBell. That was really my forte and in paid off nicely with promotions and pay increases.

[teeman8r]

this is my alma matter...

York Road U. Two Cent University.

I graduated from TSU in the spring of 1984 after 3.5 years. with a BA in Mass Communications. been in the Bidness since then with a happy career, though only as lucrative as i meant it to be... freelancing for the first 24 years...

something tells me, if you take 6 years to graduate, then college might not be for you...

[sarge83]

I have worked at a community college for 20+ yrs. and tell any relatives asking about careers and majors, while in college learn a trade like HVAC, plumbing, trucking, medical field, there is money to be made and careers to be had.

Don’t borrow anymore money than you have too and don’t graduate with a BA in psychology or theater you will be unemployed for a while in your field, maybe forever but Uncle Sam will still require his student loans to be paid, well at least for now.

[Lou L]

Parents, let your kids pursue what they love.

Sure, but (hopefully) in your wisdom as a parent, don't let them go deeply into debt if their passion is English Literature, Philosophy, or Wymyn's Studies.

[Lou L]

He'd have been better off joining the Army.

I had a similar conversation with my father when I initially failed out of college the first time. I didn't "want to waste four years of my life," is what I told him (about joining the military.)

After a few odd jobs, an another stint at a community college, I went to see my Navy recruiter. I signed up for years. I got all the experience that one could hope to expect, applying one's self in the military structure. While I chose not to make a career of it, I left highly motivated.

I went back to school even though they would only accept me on a provisional basis as my previous grades were so bad. They made me accumulate 20 hours with at least a 2.0 GPA. I had a 3.87 GPA after 22 credit hours, and was finally admitted as a full-time student.

I largely paid for my tuition by working part time. (I never signed up for the GI Bill, because I didn't know if I would ever go back to school while on active duty.) I graduated with a STEM degree in four years, even though I had to take classes over each summer. I treated every class like a mission, like it was my job in life. When I graduated, I was recruited by numerous Fortune 500 companies before choosing one that was the best fit or me. I never looked back.

I firmly believe that many students should consider he military if they are uncertain about college. The short span of an enlistment is worth it in the big picture.

[oldtech]

This would depend on the trade you went into. There are skilled trades that require a fair amount of education & don’t pay all that well.