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To: WhiskeyX
You can cut and paste to your heart's content, but that does not change fact: South Carolina seceded, and everything within the borders of South Carolina seceded at that time. Was the South Carolina legislature elected by the people of South Carolina? Of course it was. The people of South Carolina (the plebiscite) wanted secession, and the South Carolina legislature spoke for the people. The articles you cite refer to states still in the Union. It is disingenuous to try to attach seceded states with duties and obligations assumed by states still in the Union. But, disingenuousness is what you "federal government 'uber alles' statists" adore above all else.
188 posted on 10/04/2015 3:25:48 PM PDT by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: ought-six

“You can cut and paste to your heart’s content, but that does not change fact: South Carolina seceded, and everything within the borders of South Carolina seceded at that time.”

You are making a false statement again. The State of South Carolina did not secede from the United States. A rebellious government attempted to secede and pretended to secede, but there never was an actual legal, constitutional, or de jure secession of South Carolina. There was never more than a brief de facto effort to secede by force of arms in an insurrection perpetrated by only some of the inhabitants of South Carolina, which failed without ever becoming a diplomatically recognized state independent of the United States.

“Was the South Carolina legislature elected by the people of South Carolina? Of course it was.”

If your phrase “by the people” is supposed to mean only the White male landowning Democrats opposed to the Union with the United States, then they indeed may have elected the South Carolina legislators and Secession Ordinance delegates who voted for secession. If on the other hand you also mean the majority of the inhabitants of South Carolina, including the Unionists intimidated with threats of murder and mayhem, then the South Carolina legislature was certainly not elected “by the people” at all.

“The people of South Carolina (the plebiscite) wanted secession, and the South Carolina legislature spoke for the people.”

The South Carolina legislature and their handpicked choices for the secession convention did speak for “the people” whether or not “the people” of South Carolina wanted them to do so. The secessionists persecuted and often killed anyone who they even suspected of being a possible Unionist, so the people of South Carolina who were opposed to secession were mostly excluded from the political process by intimidation and by force.

“The articles you cite refer to states still in the Union. It is disingenuous to try to attach seceded states with duties and obligations assumed by states still in the Union.”

South Carolina acceded to the Union of the United States of America and ratified the fact it was entering into a “perpetual union” with the other states. South Carolina also ratified the following:

Article XIII.
Every state shall abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every state, and the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united states, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every state.
And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said articles of confederation and perpetual union. Know Ye that we the undersigned delegates, by virtue of the power and authority to us given for that pur pose, do by these presents, in the name and in behalf of our respective constituents, fully and entirely ratify and confirm each and every of the said articles of confederation and perpetual union, and all and singular the matters and things therein contained: And we do further solemnly plight and engage the faith of our respective constituents, that they shall abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled, on all questions, which by the said confederation are submitted to them. And that the articles thereof shall be inviolably observed by the states we respectively represent, and that the union shall be perpetual.

To secede from the perpetual union of the United States, the State of South Carolina was obligated to “abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled” and “nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united states, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every state.”

South Carolina did not seek and did not secure agreement for the secession from the perpetual union by the Congress assembled, and did not seek or secure the confirmation of such an agreement by Congress from the legislatures of every state. Consequently, the purported secession was unconstitutional, undemocratic insofar as it did not secure the votes of the other members of the perpetual union, unlawful, null, void, and an act of insurrection that failed to uphold the Republican form of government as mandated by the Constitution.

Since the attempted secession was a null and void act, so too were South Carolina’s usurpations of the authority of the United States Government and the rights of loyal U.S. citizens in the State of South Carolina whose defense by the United States Government, whether a majority or a minority, was mandated by the Constitution.

“It is disingenuous to try to attach seceded states with duties and obligations assumed by states still in the Union. But, disingenuousness is what you “federal government ‘uber alles’ statists” adore above all else.”

It is demonstrated by the letter of the law that it was treasonous fraud to purport that South Carolina had any rights whatsoever to unilaterally secede from the perpetual union to which it solemnly committed itself without agreement by the Congress assembled and without the required confirmations by the legislatures of each of the states.


232 posted on 10/08/2015 12:44:00 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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