Posted on 10/03/2015 1:28:14 PM PDT by Kaslin
From: CWSAC
Fort Sumter
Other Names: None
Location: Charleston County
Campaign: Operations in Charleston Harbor (April 1861)
Date(s): April 12-14, 1861
Principal Commanders: Maj. Robert Anderson [US]; Brig. Gen. P.G.T. Beauregard [CS]
Forces Engaged: Regiments: 580 total (US 80; CS est. 500)
Estimated Casualties: None
Description: On April 10, 1861, Brig. Gen. Beauregard, in command of the provisional Confederate forces at Charleston, South Carolina, demanded the surrender of the Union garrison of Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor. Garrison commander Anderson refused. On April 12, Confederate batteries opened fire on the fort, which was unable to reply effectively. At 2:30 pm, April 13, Major Anderson surrendered Fort Sumter, evacuating the garrison on the following day. The bombardment of Fort Sumter was the opening engagement of the American Civil War. Although there were no casualties during the bombardment, one Union artillerist was killed and three wounded (one mortally) when a cannon exploded prematurely while firing a salute during the evacuation on April 14.
Result(s): Confederate victory
CWSAC Reference #: SC001
Preservation Priority: III.1 (Class A)
From: CWSAC
Fort Sumter
Other Names: None
Location: Charleston County
Campaign: Operations in Charleston Harbor (April 1861)
Date(s): April 12-14, 1861
Principal Commanders: Maj. Robert Anderson [US]; Brig. Gen. P.G.T. Beauregard [CS]
Forces Engaged: Regiments: 580 total (US 80; CS est. 500)
Estimated Casualties: None
Description: On April 10, 1861, Brig. Gen. Beauregard, in command of the provisional Confederate forces at Charleston, South Carolina, demanded the surrender of the Union garrison of Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor. Garrison commander Anderson refused. On April 12, Confederate batteries opened fire on the fort, which was unable to reply effectively. At 2:30 pm, April 13, Major Anderson surrendered Fort Sumter, evacuating the garrison on the following day. The bombardment of Fort Sumter was the opening engagement of the American Civil War. Although there were no casualties during the bombardment, one Union artillerist was killed and three wounded (one mortally) when a cannon exploded prematurely while firing a salute during the evacuation on April 14.
Result(s): Confederate victory
CWSAC Reference #: SC001
Preservation Priority: III.1 (Class A)
I went and found the original resolution by the South Carolina legislature.
You’re right; in the first half of the 19th century the legislature of South Carolina did cede to the federal government the man-made landfill and the fort that was to be constructed upon it, said fort being Ft. Sumter.
I think so....were fittin’...
semper victum
The report from the Civil War Sites Advisory Commission is misleading and in gross error. The report provides an estimate for the forces engaged which undercounts the U.S. Army forces by about 6 percent and grossly undercounts the Confederate forces under the command of Brigadier-General G. T. Beauregard. The estimated force of 500 in the report appears to limit itself to counting only part of the artillery batteries which immediately engaged Fort Sumter, omitting other artillery batteries, all of the infantry regiments, and the mounted troops. Looking at the South Carolina Army and/or Confederate Army forces just on Sullivan’s Island alone, Colonel Pettigrew’s 1st Regiment of Rifles, the German Flying Artillery, Colonel Richard Anderson’s South Carolina Regulars Infantry Regiment, and Captain B. H. Rutledge’s Charleston Light Dragoons outnumbered all of the U.S. Army forces in the entire United States east of the Mississippi River. Harper & Brother United States History, 1905, Volume VIII reported:
The legislature of South Carolina authorized the organization of 10,000 men, and M. L. Bonham, late member of Congress, was appointed major-general of the State forces. Volunteers from every part of the Confederacy flocked into Charleston, and at the close of March not less than 7,000 armed men and 120 pieces of cannon, mounted on logs and earthworks. were menacing Major Anderson and his garrison. These were under the general command of PIERRE G. T. BEAUREGARD, who had been commissioned a brigadier-general by Jefferson Davis. He had arrived at Charleston on March 4.
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/battle-fort-sumter.htm
The Wikipedia article about the Battle of Fort Sumter cites a Time-Life book about the Civil War which says:
Beauregard, a trained military engineer, built-up overwhelming strength to challenge Fort Sumter. Fort Moultrie had three 8-inch Columbiads, two 8-inch howitzers, five 32-pound smoothbores, and four 24-pounders. Outside of Moultrie were five 10-inch mortars, two 32-pounders, two 24-pounders, and a 9-inch Dahlgren smoothbore. The floating battery next to Fort Moultrie had two 42-pounders and two 32-pounders on a raft protected by iron shielding. Fort Johnson on James Island had one 24-pounder and four 10-inch mortars. At Cummings Point on Morris Island, the Confederates had emplaced seven 10-inch mortars, two 42-pounders, an English Blakely rifled cannon, and three 8-inch Columbiads, the latter in the so-called Iron Battery, protected by a wooden shield faced with iron bars. About 6,000 men were available to man the artillery and to assault the fort, if necessary, including the local militia, young boys and older men.[19]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter
Although the precise details about the artillery used and their locations is the subject of some minor dispute, such as Capt. Fosters reports, the Wikipedia is a fair representation of the coastal artillery most used in the engagement. The report of the 120 guns in BG Beauregard’s commend represents the field artillery which were not useful as coastal guns and siege guns against a harbor fortress like Fort Sumter. Their purpose was to be used in land engagements against troops and land fortifications, such as any infantry, cavalry, and artillery the U.S. Army may have attempted to put ashore in landing parties.
When you buy a car at a dealer the workers at the dealership didn't build the car, thousands of people at the factory built it.
As opposed to the plantation society that kept 4 million people in chains to steal the fruits of their labors to build those wonderful southern mansions for them to wear pretty white tuxedos and to be pampered in morning until night.
“Beauregard had 50 cannon and mortars.”
Brigadier-General G.T. Beauregard was reported to have 120 artillery pieces. The vast majority of those artillery pieces wee filed cannon and field howitzers used in land engagements and against land fortifications, but not as a substitute for the very large and difficult to transport coastal guns and siege guns of the type required to reduce a harbor fortification. The artillery used to attack Fort Sumter were the larger cannon, howitzers, and mortars with the range and projectiles required to defeat the harbor fortifications of Fort Sumter. Those artillery pieces numbered slightly less than fifty pieces. The vast majority of the more than 7,000 South Carolina Army and Confederate States Army troops reported to be present at Charleston, South Carolina were infantry regiments, mounted infantry or dragoons, and field artillery battalions or regiments, some of who served alongside the artillery battalions and regiments firing upon Fort Sumter
“According to your reasoning (you said he had between 3,000 and 6,000 troops), each gun had between a 60-man crew and a 120-man crew.”
You are being silly with that statement, because you should know already most of those troops were infantry regiments and mounted infantry regiments not involved with the firing of the artillery pieces.
Cite your source. Everything I’ve read said 50 cannon and mortars were used to assault Ft. Sumter. Also, cite your source that there were 7,000 Confederate troops engaged in the assault. There may have been 7,000 CSA troops in South Carolina, but on the banks and revetments in the assault? Sorry, no way.
“Cite your source. Everything I’ve read said 50 cannon and mortars were used to assault Ft. Sumter. Also, cite your source that there were 7,000 Confederate troops engaged in the assault.”
The sources were cited in the previous posts to you and included details for the type of each artillery piece, its location, and total of 46 artillery pieces. Capt. Foster, USA, had a slightly different count from his position inside Fort Sumter observing the incoming artillery fire.
“There may have been 7,000 CSA troops in South Carolina, but on the banks and revetments in the assault? Sorry, no way.”
The response was specifically in regard to your comment about the forces under the command of Brigadier-General G.T. Beauregard at the Battle of Fort Sumter. This would include all South Carolina Army and Provisional Army of the Confederate States troops within the order of battle at the Battle of Fort Sumter. This would include the infantry, dragoon, cavalry, artillery, engineer, and quartermaster troops. One of the infantry regiments was assigned the mission to serve as an ad hoc artillery regiment using the captured U.S. artillery pieces from Fort Moultrie, Castle Pinckney, and elsewhere. A number of the infantry regiments were deployed to provide security for the artillery batteries. Some of the infantry was organized into a small assault force land upon Fort Sumter and scale the fortifications, if need be, or to occupy the fort upon its surrender. The bulk of the South Carolina Army and Confederate forces were to provide defenses for the entire Charleston Harbor area against any U.S. amphibious landings and to organize for future military operations.
As I already quoted in a previous post to you, this is what was reported by the article:
The War Begins! Fort Sumter
(Confederate Military History, Volume 5, Chapter I)
The legislature had passed a bill on December 17th providing for the organization of ten regiments for the defense of the State, and the convention had ordered the formation of a regiment for six months’ service, to be embodied at once, the governor to appoint the field officers. This last was “Gregg’s First regiment,” which was organized in January, 1861, and on duty on Sullivan’s and Morris islands by the 1st of February following. The governor appointed Maxcy Gregg, of Columbia, colonel: Col. A. H. Gladden, who had been an officer of the Palmetto regiment in the Mexican war, lieutenant-colonel; and D. H. Hamilton, the late marshal of the United States court in South Carolina, major. On March 6, 1861, the adjutant-general of the State reported to Gen. M. L. Bonham, whom the governor had commissioned major-general, to command the division formed under the act of December 17, 1860, that he had received into the service of the State 104 companies, under the said act of the legislature, aggregating an effective force of 8,836 men and officers; that these companies had been formed into ten regiments and the regiments into four brigades.
These regiments were mustered for twelve months’ service, were numbered respectively from 1 to 10, inclusive, and commanded by Cols. Johnson Hagood, J. B. Kershaw, J. H. Williams, J. B. E. Sloan, M. Jenkins, J. H. Rion, T. G. Bacon, E. B. Cash, J. D. Blanding, and A.M. Manigault.
Regardless of the source used, the number of Confederate combatants at the Battle of Fort Sumter numbered in the thousands, which cannot be remotely claimed with any honesty whatsoever as being less than the approximately 85 U.S. combatants at Fort Sumter or the fraction of the 200 men in the relief force who arrived off Charleston Harbor. Your claim that the U.S. forces outnumbered the Confederate forces at the Battle of Fort Sumter is so very far from the truth, it qualifies as a truly absurd falsehood. Again, it must also be noted the regiments of the South Carolina Army and the Provisional Army of the Confederate States on 12 April 1861 outnumbered those of the U.S. Army east of the Mississippi River by more than a 5 to 1 ratio. The entire U.S. Army numbered a little more than 18,000 officers and enlisted men, whereas the South Carolina Army alone had just mustered into service ten regiments numbering 8,836 officers and enlisted men.
“You can cut and paste to your heart’s content, but that does not change fact: South Carolina seceded, and everything within the borders of South Carolina seceded at that time.”
You are making a false statement again. The State of South Carolina did not secede from the United States. A rebellious government attempted to secede and pretended to secede, but there never was an actual legal, constitutional, or de jure secession of South Carolina. There was never more than a brief de facto effort to secede by force of arms in an insurrection perpetrated by only some of the inhabitants of South Carolina, which failed without ever becoming a diplomatically recognized state independent of the United States.
“Was the South Carolina legislature elected by the people of South Carolina? Of course it was.”
If your phrase “by the people” is supposed to mean only the White male landowning Democrats opposed to the Union with the United States, then they indeed may have elected the South Carolina legislators and Secession Ordinance delegates who voted for secession. If on the other hand you also mean the majority of the inhabitants of South Carolina, including the Unionists intimidated with threats of murder and mayhem, then the South Carolina legislature was certainly not elected “by the people” at all.
“The people of South Carolina (the plebiscite) wanted secession, and the South Carolina legislature spoke for the people.”
The South Carolina legislature and their handpicked choices for the secession convention did speak for “the people” whether or not “the people” of South Carolina wanted them to do so. The secessionists persecuted and often killed anyone who they even suspected of being a possible Unionist, so the people of South Carolina who were opposed to secession were mostly excluded from the political process by intimidation and by force.
“The articles you cite refer to states still in the Union. It is disingenuous to try to attach seceded states with duties and obligations assumed by states still in the Union.”
South Carolina acceded to the Union of the United States of America and ratified the fact it was entering into a “perpetual union” with the other states. South Carolina also ratified the following:
Article XIII.
Every state shall abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every state, and the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united states, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every state.
And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said articles of confederation and perpetual union. Know Ye that we the undersigned delegates, by virtue of the power and authority to us given for that pur pose, do by these presents, in the name and in behalf of our respective constituents, fully and entirely ratify and confirm each and every of the said articles of confederation and perpetual union, and all and singular the matters and things therein contained: And we do further solemnly plight and engage the faith of our respective constituents, that they shall abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled, on all questions, which by the said confederation are submitted to them. And that the articles thereof shall be inviolably observed by the states we respectively represent, and that the union shall be perpetual.
To secede from the perpetual union of the United States, the State of South Carolina was obligated to “abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled” and “nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united states, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every state.”
South Carolina did not seek and did not secure agreement for the secession from the perpetual union by the Congress assembled, and did not seek or secure the confirmation of such an agreement by Congress from the legislatures of every state. Consequently, the purported secession was unconstitutional, undemocratic insofar as it did not secure the votes of the other members of the perpetual union, unlawful, null, void, and an act of insurrection that failed to uphold the Republican form of government as mandated by the Constitution.
Since the attempted secession was a null and void act, so too were South Carolina’s usurpations of the authority of the United States Government and the rights of loyal U.S. citizens in the State of South Carolina whose defense by the United States Government, whether a majority or a minority, was mandated by the Constitution.
“It is disingenuous to try to attach seceded states with duties and obligations assumed by states still in the Union. But, disingenuousness is what you “federal government ‘uber alles’ statists” adore above all else.”
It is demonstrated by the letter of the law that it was treasonous fraud to purport that South Carolina had any rights whatsoever to unilaterally secede from the perpetual union to which it solemnly committed itself without agreement by the Congress assembled and without the required confirmations by the legislatures of each of the states.
“The South should have offered to sell 100% of the slaves to the North....”
Wrong, because the secessionists made it abundantly clear they had every intention of using the Confederate States of America to preserve and extend their slavery into new lands, including their conquest of Cuba, Mexico, various other Latin American states, and whatever part of the United States territories where they could gain some form of control.
“Very educational. Always love reading specific historical quotes. Thanks for those. But your point is entirely irrelevant. Those orders were issued in 1860. It wasn’t until 1861 that the Confederacy was created.”
South Carolina threatened to secede before the Presidential election occurred on 6 November 1860. South Carolina commenced hostilities with the United States Government when it arrested an officer of the United States performing his duties in transferring supplies from the Federal Charleston Arsenal to the Federal Fort Moultrie on 7 November 1860 and raised its flag over the U.S. Government artillery batteries in Charleston on 9 November 1860. It was after South Carolina commenced hostilities on 7 and 9 November 1860 when Major Anderson, USA, was ordered to take command of the U.S. Army installation in the areas of Charleston Harbor on 15 November 1860. South Carolina held an unlawful secession convention on 17 December 1860, which voted to secede on 20 December 1860, and proclaimed the unlawful secession to be in effect on 24 December 1860, all of which occurred before the year of 1861.
“Once it was, that was no longer Federal territory. Union troops abandoned every other fort and post in the South in 1861. Only Ft Sumter remained garrisoned.”
Those are false statements and lies. The U.S. Government facilities in Charleston were the properties of the U.S. Government. The U.S. Government held the title deed in fee simple granted by the State of South Carolina for the site of Fort Sumter. The State of South Carolina and its Convention formally acknowledged the Federal claims to the property rights for the forts, arsenals, and other properties; and they authorized the appointment of commissioners to treat with the U.S. Government for a financial settlement of claims arising from their seizure and expropriation by South Carolina. The U.S. Government refused to treat with the commissioners from South Carolina due to their being the unlawful agents of an unlawful and armed insurrection against the Constitution and the U.S. Government having no lawful authority for their actions.
Your comment, “Union troops abandoned every other fort and post in the South in 1861.” is another lie. They were not “Union troops,” because they were the forces of the U.S. Army and the U.S. Navy, and their forts and posts were seized by force and/or threat of force in most instances, rather than being simply abandoned. In Texas, The commander of the Department of Texas was a secret secessionist conspirator who traitorously used his command to order the surrender the one-fourth of the U.S. Army located in Texas and their posts, before he took a commission as a general in the Provisional Army of the Confederate States. Furthermore, Fort Pickens, Fort Zachary Taylor, and Fort Jefferson were located in the State of Florida, and they were not surrendered to Confederate forces when attacked.
“Only Ft Sumter’s soldiers refused the repeated requests to leave this now-foreign territory....”
That is another lie. Fort Pickens, Fort Zachary Taylor, and Fort Jefferson were located in the State of Florida, and they were not surrendered to Confederate forces when attacked.
“The Confederacy gave them MONTHS to leave. They refused.”
The U.S. Government was obligated by the Constitution to suppress the unlawful insurrection and restore the Republican form of government usurped by the insurrectionists.
“When you take new territory, and armed troops belonging to the former owners refuse to leave, even at threat of violence, then you eventually have to back up that threat.”
The use of the force of arms to impose an unconstitutional and armed insurrection upon the loyal citizens of the United States resident in the rebellious states are acts of treason punishable by the confiscation of property, imprisonment, and/or capital punishment. The insurrectionists were not recognized by the United States or by the international community as lawful governments or as governments independent of the jurisdiction of the United States. The United States was therefore under no obligation to surrender its properties or its sovereignty in the State of South Carolina, but it was obligated by the Constitution to defend its properties and its sovereignty in South Carolina.
“But nice try at spin there.”
The lies and the spin are yours.
“Lincoln STARTED A WAR THAT KILLED 800,000 AND WOUNDED A MILLION OF HIS FELLOW AMERICANS.”
That is a lie, because it was the secessionists who started armed hostilities against the United States months before Lincoln was inaugurated as the President of the United States. The secessionists are responsible for the causing the casualties of the American Civil War, which never would have happened if they had not started an armed rebellion in violation of the Constitution.
I’m not terribly sure that Armed Rebellion is in violation of the Constitution.
Can you show me the the article/section in the US Constitution that codifies state secession as either being allowed or not allowed?
“I’m not terribly sure that Armed Rebellion is in violation of the Constitution.”
Let me guess...you can’t read.
No. It’s just that the Founders were pretty fond of that approach.
There are many provisions in the permanent United States Laws which prohibit unilateral secession from the perpetual union of the United States of America. To begin with:
Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the states of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.
[....]
XIII.
Every State shall abide by the determination of the United States in Congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.
And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in Congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union. Know Ye that we the undersigned delegates, by virtue of the power and authority to us given for that purpose, do by these presents, in the name and in behalf of our respective constituents, fully and entirely ratify and confirm each and every of the said Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union, and all and singular the matters and things therein contained: And we do further solemnly plight and engage the faith of our respective constituents, that they shall abide by the determinations of the United States in Congress assembled, on all questions, which by the said Confederation are submitted to them. And that the Articles thereof shall be inviolably observed by the States we respectively represent, and that the Union shall be perpetual.
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