The impossible just happened in Texas

Slate ^

[bigdaddy45]

In the wee hours of the morning on Sunday, the mighty state of Texas was asleep.

The honky-tonks in Austin were shuttered, the air-conditioned office towers of Houston were powered down, and the wind whistled through the dogwood trees and live oaks on the gracious lawns of Preston Hollow.

Out in the desolate flats of West Texas, the same wind was turning hundreds of wind turbines, producing tons of electricity at a time when comparatively little supply was needed.

And then a very strange thing happened: The so-called spot price of electricity in Texas fell toward zero, hit zero, and then went negative for several hours.

[bigdaddy45]

The world is a changin'. Actually paying buyers to take power. Interesting stuff.

[ctdonath2]

A load of electricity dumped into the power grid has to go somewhere, just like water pumped into the water grid has to go somewhere. If there is insufficient demand (people taking stuff out) then it’s possible for the input pressure (however manifest), to damage the grid - at great repair cost. Cheaper sometimes to pay people to take power (water, whatever) out of the system just to ensure the distribution system doesn’t get damaged. Blown transformers are a whole lot more expensive to replace than paying people to use more power for a while.

(Yes, that’s a paraphrase. The exact details are needlessly complicated for the purposes of this thread.)

[ctdonath2]

Don’t worry, as the balance of supply and demand adjusts to compensate for each others’ changes, that power won’t be free for long. Electricity producers will cut back production until the demand is relatively high enough to warrant customers paying for it again.

[Paladin2]

It’s not impossible, it’s caused by (Federal) government subsidies distorting the market..

[rstrahan]

Having lived in Texas, the game is rigged. They hacpve generation stations just setting idle until it gets peak, then they vid the price. So when electricity may normally be bid at, say, $45 Mwh, a single plant can bid $4500 Mwh, and every plant gets paid $4500 Mwh. Happens every peak day. That is why with deregulation Texas electric rates went from the lowest to some of the highest. My son routinely pays $500 a month in the summer and he doesn’t have a big home.

[lacrew]

Read the article...the wind generators weren’t taking a loss. Tax credits altered the energy market.

[tallyhoe]

I am skeptical!!!

[ConservativeMind]

We have had that happen a few times on our day-ahead/pseudo real-time pricing electricity service. To keep the service revenue neutral when they overestimated the hourly average, the company has given us -0.01 hours in the middle of the night.

Distribution/transportation still cost, but the actual electricity was below free. We couldn't believe it.

[outofsalt]

The price goes down when demand is low? Shocking!
This is not an ecologic triumph but a very basic economic principle.

[PGR88]

The government won’t like it, but a real advancement would moving to a world where most individuals are able to easily, and cheaply generate their own electricity.

Everyone off the grid, or the grid being completely optional.

[bigdaddy45]

Is it a basic economic principle that you pay people to take excess inventory off your hands? I’ve never had a grocery store pay me to take a loaf of bread.

[gop4lyf]

Then your son is getting ripped off. I too live in Texas. I keep my 2100 square foot home at a cool 69°, and my August bill was $105. Tell him to go to www.powertochoose.org That is literally all that I did. He can choose a company and a plan to meet his needs. I pay about 6.7¢ per kW. It is possible that he is in a subdivision that does not allow people to choose their electrical provider, but without deregulation I would still be paying more than twice what I am now. The water bill, on the other hand......

[mom of young patriots]

I noticed on a recent trip through west Texas that a number of the turbines were not turning. I had assumed it was for maintenance or repair. Maybe it has to do with supply and demand, though.

[1FreeAmerican]

Please define the “input pressure”.

[txhurl]

I wonder daily what all the highrollers who bet on the drought continuing are doing now that THEIR price-gauging schemes/investments got blown out of the water in May.

[ontap]

People buy day old bread every day!!!

[crusty old prospector]

I second that. Powertochoose.org. You can get around 8 cents per mgwh. I have a 3200 square foot house that I keep around 75. My highest bills are less than $300 in the summer. Much less in winter.

[crusty old prospector]

My bill to water my one-acre lot was $500 in August. It is now burning as I have given up waiting on rain and turn it on every third day to water the bushes. It will go dormant in a month anyway.

[bigdaddy45]

You need to read closer. Yes, they do. But the bakery doesn’t PAY you to take the bread off of their hands. That is what is happening here.

[chimera]

Its a result of tax breaks, feed-in tariffs, and subsidies. In a recent New England power auction, wind-power producers were bidding negative prices into the auction because even though they lost money on distributing their power, the subsidies they received still made them a profit. A totally upside down market when the most unreliable and expensive (on their own) get the most favorable treatment from government-mandated subsidies. The subsidies are driving the traditional (and legitimate) producers out of business. When they're gone and the government pulls the plug on the subsidies, we'll be left with expensive and unreliable power generation, basically like a third-world or 19th century society.