Posted on 08/02/2015 12:29:43 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
Walt Disney’s got a lot to answer for.
I blame Bambi and all the anthropomorphic drivel that followed, like the Lion King.
That unfortunate part of the culture, more than anything else, seems to “inform” the view of nature held by effete urbanites who rarely venture out of doors.
So, let me weigh in on the Cecil the Lion controversy.
It was just another animal — and the outrage generated by its death is unreasoned, sentimental nonsense.
People who claim to “love” animals more than people are emotionally damaged individuals incapable of weathering the difficulty required in a real relationship with something that can talk back.
You think your widdle puddy-tat loves you?
Is that why if you leave the door open your widdle snookums heads for the hills and you spend the next month teary eyed, putting up posters begging your neighbours to assist in its return?
(Helpful household hint for Calgarians who have lost a cat: Save yourself the printing costs. A coyote already ate it.)
The guide who took Minnesota dentist Walter Palmer hunting told the British newspaper The Telegraph that they set up on a farm next to Hwange National Park. There is no evidence that Palmer — an experienced big-game hunter — knew anything was amiss. He paid his guide $50,000. It’s reasonable for Palmer to conclude it was just another legal hunt, conducted by a guide who has been in the business since 1992.
Reuters interviewed a guy selling used clothing on the streets of the capital, Harare. Tryphina Kaseke told the news agency: “Are you saying all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed all the time in this country. What is so special about this one?”
I dunno.
Cause this one made Jimmy Kimmel tear up on TV? (I guess it has been a long time since The Man Show.)
You know what didn’t make Jimmy Kimmel tear up on TV?
The estimated 1,200 Africans who are killed by wild animals, including lions, every year.
Or the fact that 10 times as many babies die at birth in Zimbabwe as do in Canada. Or that only 30% of the population has a job. Or that the average wage for those lucky enough to be working is $253 a month. Or that the country recently suffered hyperinflation, that in one month, was estimated at 231,000,000%
And no, that’s not a typo.
Some sources put the cash injection into Africa by hunters at $200 million a year … not including economic multipliers.
That’s big money for those folks. And it’s a lot of protein on the table when the hunt is done.
Lions attack humans when they get old and their teeth decay and need easy prey. Before they starve to death.
And speaking of elderly lions, how old was Cecil?
He was 13. Average life span of a lion in the wild? Around 12-15. That lion was already on borrowed time.
A trophy animal is, by definition, near the end of its life span.
Finally — and here come some of those pesky and annoying things called “facts” — here are a couple from a renowned conservationist and expert in endangered wildlife management.
Guy works out of Cambridge University and his name is Nigel Leader-Williams.
He’s the farthest thing from a trophy hunter. And yet the University of Washington’s Conservation magazine points out that in The Journal of International Wildlife Law & Policy, Leader-Williams noted that legalizing the hunting of white rhino in South Africa resulted in a jump from fewer than 100 to more than 11,000.
Why?
Because when the animal was monetized, private landowners reintroduced the animals onto their lands.
Leader-Williams also, according the the university publication, noted that allowing hunting of Zimbabwe’s elephants doubled the amount of habitat under wildlife management. Again, because privately owned lands were made available, thus “reversing the problem of habitat loss and helping to maintain a sustained population increase in Zimbabwe’s already large elephant population.”
Gee. Is there anything capitalism can’t do?
Name the countries that have banned hunting — Kenya, Tanzania and Zambia — and you’ll see an accelerated loss of wildlife and habitat not seen in jurisdictions that allow hunting.
That’s known as an inconvenient truth … but it oughta take precedence over the feelings of pampered North Americans raised on a diet of Disney flicks.
As they should.
God created the animals to be food for man.
First, God did not authorize eating animals. And our teeth are not so designed. But yes a little aged on he permitted “fallen” man to do so. And yes —as for Cecil, he was killed NOT for necessary food — he was killed to make a “trophy.”
Cite chapter and verse where He forbid it, please.
Comparing chickens to lions is just plain stupid!
you misunderstood me or perhaps I did not express myself clearly. sorry if that.
but
I do NOT want to get into a “Vegetarianism” debate.
I am not a vegetarian myself.
Get a vegetarian to debate you on vegetarianism.
Thank you.
notes... I will only note a few Biblical indications, verses you may wish to consider.... and when a real vegetarian reads this perhaps s/he can do a much better job. I am only listing these because they come to mind, is all... to try to be helpful for you.
Please do not debate me about this because this is really not my topic. You deserve a real vegetarian, or a student of Bible that has studied this question. Thanks!
In Genesis, God initially gave man plants to eat, only, for his food.
Later as the story unfolded, God added animals to the diet. You can debate the meaning of these verses with a vegetarian but I am confident s/he will interpret them to mean that God prefers us to eat vegies and that He only added meat as became necessary due to changed conditions.
Isaiah predicts the Messiah will eat butter and honey, no meat mentioned. Also in Isaiah, God says He gets no pleasure from man killing animals (even?) for sacrifices
Romans 14 teaches that it is better not to eat meat (or drink wine or do anything else that will cause any man to stumble, a key Pauline theme in Scripture)
there’s more but I just recalled the above from memory, which is rapidly ebbing into very short supply as I approach my terminus in this life, ha! For anything further, let’s please (both) wait for a real Bible expert who has studied this question. THANKS! All the best, fhc
So Jesus supplied fish to the masses because he though fish were vegetables?
In heaven, I take it literally that the lion will lay down with the lamb. But that is not to say that it is a sin to kill an animal for food or other suitable reason (protecting livestock, crops, skins, etc.)
But Paul also talks about food saying something like “What comes out of a man’s mouth is more important than what goes into it.”
And IIRC the meat he was talking about was meat that had been sacrificed to the various gods, and then sold on the street afterwards. But that it was okay to eat it.
Cecil was not killed for food or a warm jacket. Cecil was killed for a trophy. That’s what got me upset.
As for interpreting Paul, it can also be argued that he meant meat in general (not only meat specifically offered to idols). I cannot prove it either way, however.
Let’s wait for a vegetarian Bible expert (since I am neither). I only wanted to object to some rich American paying $50,000 to kill a lion halfway around the world to make a trophy of him. I find that objectionable, vegetarianism notwithstanding. IMHO. I cannot ‘prove’ my objection any more than that. It is not impossible for a generally conservative person to have some feelings, especially for living creatures being killed ... and without the reason or ‘excuse’ of it being for necessary food. Any dentist who can pay $50,000 for a lion-killing-guide can pay $5 for a bite to eat at his local diner.
“...and without the reason or ‘excuse’ of it being for necessary food. Any dentist who can pay $50,000 for a lion-killing-guide can pay $5 for a bite to eat at his local diner.”
I agree with you on that. The whole “only shoot what you can eat” argument falls apart at that. Although I personally view hunting (or fishing) like that.
And with regards to having “feelings”, I view killing an animal for sport as a very solemn event. It is mixed with happiness, excitement, honor and a bit of sadness. At least for me. And like you say - even if one eats the meat, it is still for sport for me and many people that hunt.
And while I myself wouldn’t kill an animal just for a trophy, if they do it within the law that is up to them.
If you think that Lions are not animals, you are just plain stupid!
I agree 100%. This wasn’t a legal hunt.
I didn’t say that. I said nothing like that. I didn’t hint at that. Period.
Argue with some other straw man because I won’t play that role.
How would you know?
You strongly implied it in your statement.
No one knows anything 100%. Absolutely nothing. You can prove ... nothing 100%. period.
Having said that, 25 years of prosecutorial experience goes an awfully long way.
This is “I was holding it for a friend”. If facts come out to show otherwise, I’d gladly change my mind and say I was wrong. I have zero problem with that.
I stand by what he did was a crime based on the facts I see. And an experienced big game hunter claiming he didn’t know is like an experienced driver claiming he didn’t know the speed limit in a residential area because he never saw the speed limit sign.
All the argument about who the lion was, was he “human”, etc is all crap and a smoke screen. Quite frankly, those arguments and all arguments outside the fact mean nothing to me. But I believe he is lying. Again, if I am wrong, I’ll say, “I was wrong”. I have done that before and don’t find it the least embarrassing.
EVERY lion killed in Africa is baited. Fences don’t stop deer in my area, don’t stop lions, elephants either! You ought to see a herd of zebra go through a cattle fence at 40 mph!
What they described is normal hunting practices, an animal is shot for bait, drug behind the truck, just in case a lion (or leopard) happens across it by accident, he will follow the bait. I get a newsletter from Charlton/McCallum safaris in Zimbabwe, who have their own anti poaching group as well as guiding hunters, in just their hunting area, they have had 15 known people killed just by lions, so don’t discount it, you just don’t hear about it, and it’s doubtful they know of all of them.
By the way, bear is edible, and loins of mountain lion are definitely edible. Just like you, landowners in Africa would kill every lion that wandered onto their property.....if they couldn’t make money by allowing hunting.
By the way, I have been there and done it, in Africa, Alaska, BC, all the western USA.
I have to say it again, all lion hunting is over bait, and animals tend to not stay in fences. How hard is that to understand??? I doubt that they lured anything, they put out a bait and he came in to it! Hundreds of lions are killed that wander off refuges and take up residence where the living is easy near cattle herds, they don’t look at the maps before looking for lunch, for God’s sake.
No one is more interested in the preservation of animals than a hunter, and every PH that I have hunted with in Africa was constantly on the watch for poachers, the ones that will take over if hunting is abolished.
That is all you needed to say,”I believe he is lying”. You are entitled to your opinion. Had the said that, I would not have responded.
I didn’t say that trophy hunting is not a legitimate form of hunting, it is.
I just quit big game hunting years ago when I figured out that most (most) big game animals are pretty predictable and stupid. If a hunter pays attention to the game animal he or she is going after, they will start to understand the patterns that the animals live and operate by on a daily and nightly basis. In that respect most (most) animals are just like people, they have patterns.
Once those patterns and habits are understood, it is no longer hunting, it is just being in the right place at the right time and killing.
I know a place in the Rocky Mountains where at a certain time of the morning, in a certain low pass, I can guarantee you a trophy elk before 6:45 am, and it is close to a dirt road so you don’t have to pack it out 5 miles. I would also tell you, don’t shoot the first one over the pass, wait for the 4th or 5th one.
Same thing for antelope; find the herd, then don’t try to stalk or case them down, they can smell, see, or hear you a lot further away than you can get an accurate shot.
Just pick a good high spot and lay down in the tall grass and brush. They are nosy, curious little boogers and there is a trick that is probably several thousand years old that will draw them in within 40 to 70 yards for a perfect shot.
Bear, mountain lion, elk, deer; they are all the same, know their habits and you will always come back with meat on the table.
I just hunt birds now; I find that the older and slower I get, the faster and smarter they get.
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