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“and the rugged nature of it is unquestionably masculine, which draws attention”

BTW I agree this is “off thread”! Well, it isn’t the first time and won’t be the last . . . If we should take it off-line, I am willing . . .

Respectfully, I disagree with your premise, above, of the “unquestionably masculine, which draws attention.” The “truly masculine” (in the mind of a healthy girl or woman) is the mutual provider, the defender of women and children. The “truly masculine” seeks not to subdue his female partner, but to appreciate her and advance HER powers to the mutual benefit of both him and the family. The true male knows that he succeeds only with a female partner, mate, wife, who is his equal OR BETTER! The secure, wise, truly masculine man, can accept and appreciate and indeed SEEK a woman who is his superior in . . . intelligence? commitment? .. . if not physical strength.

This I know, for I have a father and husband in that character. I have great empathy for women who believe they have to settle for less.

BTW I agree this is “off thread”! Well, it isn’t the first time and won’t be the last . . . If we should take it off-line, I am willing . . .

I didn't mean to imply that; this is an open forum. The horned cats can come zotpaw at their leisure if we drift too far.

Respectfully, I disagree with your premise, above, of the “unquestionably masculine, which draws attention.” The “truly masculine” (in the mind of a healthy girl or woman) is the mutual provider, the defender of women and children. The “truly masculine” seeks not to subdue his female partner, but to appreciate her and advance HER powers to the mutual benefit of both him and the family. The true male knows that he succeeds only with a female partner, mate, wife, who is his equal OR BETTER! The secure, wise, truly masculine man, can accept and appreciate and indeed SEEK a woman who is his superior in . . . intelligence? commitment? .. . if not physical strength.

Well, I concur again on a number of levels. My comment on masculinity was not that the biker was "most masculine" but "notably masculine" in culture. And I'm speaking of appearances, for the most part - what draws attention, what pulls the interest. The "truly masculine" exists as well on a continuum (as most things do) that Robert Hicks has done well to describe.

This I know, for I have a father and husband in that character. I have great empathy for women who believe they have to settle for less.

Then you are thrice blessed, in them and in your appreciation, as the three legs of a sacred seat to support your family across generations. Not all are blessed equally.

Time for a ride... much respect.