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To: Cboldt

“Because I don’t have an issue with the statute.”

I however do, because sincere laymen cannot interpret it on its face.

Just as tens of thousands of pages of IRS code and regulations cannot be understood by any one living person, including any one person employed by the IRS, nor any legislator who voted on any of the laws which spewed out so many tens of thousands of pages of regulation, much less an individual taxpayer.

I abhor the strangulation of our Republic by legislation the ordinary Patriot cannot grasp at face value. Such as you have to pass it to know what is in it.

I abhor the Executive Branch which uses incomprehensible legislation, in order to produce more tens of thousands of pages of regulations which no one person can grasp.

I abhor judicial opinions which override even the legitimate legislative function to pass laws supposedly in the interests of we free citizens, which in themselves are often incomprehensible.

I DO have a problem with any law that I cannot comprehend on first reading, as a Citizen, and my advanced degrees do nothing but support my contention, that all laws we are subject to, should be understandable and comprehensible by any American citizen with at least 8th grade education. After all, most of our ancestors did not exceed that level of formal education.

Sorry to have replied. I realize that mere civil servants will apply the “full extent of the law” — they are so-to-speak duty-bound to do so. They will apply the full extent of the law, whether they or we understand it.

And why exactly shouldn’t we be able to understand the laws?


294 posted on 07/11/2015 5:30:50 PM PDT by AMDG&BVMH
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To: AMDG&BVMH
-- I however do, because sincere laymen cannot interpret it on its face. --

It's not that hard. People generally know that assault, bank robbery, pimping, murder, etc. are illegal, yes? All that "criminal conspiracy" adds, is that it is a crime to agree with another person, to perpetrate a crime. And for "gang conspiracy," the purpose of the crime has to be to advance a gang purpose or objective.

When a person is intent on obfuscating the law (not saying you are, but you used this example), like making "agreement to ride" part of a "criminal conspiracy," well, the obfuscation is the problem - not the law.

-- I realize that mere civil servants will apply the "full extent of the law" -- they are so-to-speak duty-bound to do so. --

Sometimes they knowingly act in contravention of the law. The system is set up to "excuse" violations made by the state. You can beat the rap, but you can;t beat the ride, etc. Judges do this (deliberate misapplication of the law) too.

As for your contention that the law is beyond the grasp of people of average intelligence, you be the judge.

15.02. CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY. (a) A person commits criminal conspiracy if, with intent that a felony be committed:

(1) he agrees with one or more persons that they or one or more of them engage in conduct that would constitu te the offense; and

(2) he or one or more of them performs an overt act in pursuance of the agreement.

There's a bit more to the plain criminal conspiracy crime (which isn't the crime charged here), but that's the gist of it. Do you think a layperson would have trouble understanding it?

Texas Penal Code Chapter 71. Organized Crime

Generally, under this groups of criminal statutes, a person has to be a member of a criminal gang. But, that alone is not a crime, otherwise we could grab all of MS-13, Bandidos, etc. and convict them on the basis of membership, and no other element.

Sec. 71.02. ENGAGING IN ORGANIZED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

(a) A person commits an offense if, with the intent to establish, maintain, or participate in a combination or in the profits of a combination or as a member of a criminal street gang, the person commits or conspires to commit one or more of the following:

(1) murder, capital murder, arson, aggravated robbery, robbery, burglary, theft, aggravated kidnapping, kidnapping, aggravated assault, aggravated sexual assault, sexual assault, continuous sexual abuse of young child or children, solicitation of a minor, forgery, deadly conduct, assault punishable as a Class A misdemeanor, burglary of a motor vehicle, or unauthorized use of a motor vehicle; ...

[extended list of crimes snipped]

That one is considerably more complicated than 15.02 criminal conspiracy (outside of the organized crime context), but still retains the gist - to be guilty, a person has to conspire to commit a crime.

An overt act is not required to commit conspiracy in the 71.02 gang context, but the "intent" element is more complex in the gang context than in 15.02 criminal conspiracy, in that it includes both an intent to commit the crime, and an intent to benefit the gang.

Even though the "engaging in organized criminal activity" law is more complicated, I believe that a person below average intelligence easily knows that an earnest agreement with others, to commit a crime, is at risk of obtaining time in the graybar hotel.

295 posted on 07/11/2015 6:00:12 PM PDT by Cboldt
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