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To: navyguy
Creationism claims that it is scientifically valid in the same manner that non-creationism claims to be scientific. While you may appreciate my position, I am not sure you understand it. A definition of science that is limited to the scientific method can not speak to origins, it fails all three tests of observability, repeatability and verifiability. Thus creation science and evolutionary science suffer from the same fate of being unscientific, within the constraints of the scientific method.

When the definition of science is expanded to empirical materialism, that allows for speculation and is built on unchallengeable presumptions, it is a philosophy that reinforces its own bias. Science, narrowly defined, is not sufficient to explain all knowledge, it is among the most useful ways to understand reality but it has limits. It is simple hubris to assume science is ne plus ultra.

Both the creationist and the non-creationist are looking at present reality and trying to make it fit into the framework of their worldview, but the worldview is a priori. Both camps interpret "evidence" a posteriori according to their presuppositions. Both become self-reinforcing simply because their methods are beyond the scientific method and synthesized with beliefs about reality that are not scientifically verifiable. When the evolutionist's and cosmologist's speculative hypothesis were accepted as valid science, consistency of method must allow for us embarrassing young earth creationists a seat at the table. I'm not embarrassed and I certainly will not be shamed for a consistency of thought that is antithetical to a increasingly secularized orthodoxy.

54 posted on 07/10/2015 11:53:23 AM PDT by DaveyB (Live free or die!)
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To: DaveyB
While you may appreciate my position, I am not sure you understand it. A definition of science that is limited to the scientific method can not speak to origins, it fails all three tests of observability, repeatability and verifiability.

You want to unilaterally impose a requirement on evolutionary science that requires it to explain something that is not within the scope of the theory, correct?

55 posted on 07/10/2015 12:22:21 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: DaveyB

“A definition of science that is limited to the scientific method can not speak to origins, it fails all three tests of observability, repeatability and verifiability.”

The origin of what? Life? The universe? Earth?

“Science, narrowly defined, is not sufficient to explain all knowledge, it is among the most useful ways to understand reality but it has limits. It is simple hubris to assume science is ne plus ultra.”

I’m not making that claim. In fact, I don’t know of anyone that does. Science IS limited, no doubt. But anyone who claims it is the alpha and omega of all knowledge simply has no understanding of science (or epistomology).

“Both the creationist and the non-creationist are looking at present reality and trying to make it fit into the framework of their worldview”

No. Actual science frequently challenges and dramatically changes our world view. It’s happened many times. Galileo and Einstein are perhaps the best examples.

“but the worldview is a priori. Both camps interpret “evidence” a posteriori according to their presuppositions.”

If you are looking to invoke the analytic-synthetic distinction here I can only wonder why because it isn’t doing you any favors. It has only muddied your argument. All “evidence”, in the sense of that which can be observed and measured is, by definition, a posteriori. However, there is no reason whatsoever to state categorically, as you have done, that any worldview is a priori. You might argue that Jungian archetypes are a priori world views, but even those are ‘views’... they are just common objects in the unconcious.

“When the evolutionist’s and cosmologist’s speculative hypothesis were accepted as valid science,”

They are accepted because they use known, valid observation and measurement techniques, not because of the nature of the theory. And as we learn more we modify the theory. It’s a natural, self correcting and self policing process (assuming scientists are honest people). Creationism, on the other hand, begins from the opposite end of the candle... it presupposes an absolutely unchangeable truth/conclusion and then seeks to support the idea through known, valid observaions and measurements. But, because of it’s presupposed conclusion, it is forced to reject well established facts and measurements that might suggest an alternate conclusion. In the end it rejects far more than it accepts. That’s a weak position.

You’ve done a fine job cobbling together some entertaining sophistry here, but Creationism simply isn’t supported by actual measurements and facts.

Thanks and have a great weekend!


57 posted on 07/11/2015 9:01:08 AM PDT by navyguy (The National Reset Button is pushed with the trigger finger.)
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