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To: Aetius

I agree mostly with what you said, particularly about assimilation. Mind you, that assimilation needs to also apply to those who were born in Western countries, and are, say, 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants.

My main points are:

1) Immigration to most Western countries started to increase compared to previous years/decades since WW2. And again, since the Lebanese Civil war, and late 1970s and throughout the 1980s (Soviets in Afghanistan, Iran-Iraq war & Khomeini in Iran), and you’re right since 9/11, post Afghanistan and Iraq wars, and again since 2011 so-called Arab Spring, Syrian Civil War, and now ISIS.

In the above, I am not including pre-WW2 and colonization of many countries in the M.E. and Africa, and even South East Asia. Because most immigrants fairly easily allowed to immigrate to Western countries such as France and the UK were from past colonies; for example, Pakistan, India, Nigeria, Tunisia, Algeria, the West Indies, etc..

Nor have I included immigrants from South and Central America, or Eastern Europe to the West.

2) Any time there is a major & ongoing war, and or political instability, which consequently, more often than not, lead to economic downturn, there is an influx of immigrants to the West. There is hardly ever immigrants from West to East or Middle East, etc..

3) Whilst the West is not always responsible for causing immigrants to flood into Western countries, when we start wars directly or via proxy, and or invade countries, we do play a role in creating conditions that lead to immigration (mostly refugees & political asylum immigrants).

As a rule, fairly stable and prosperous countries produce significantly less immigrants, and if they do, those immigrants tend to more ‘quality’ ones, not refugees and political asylum seekers.

Whilst we can simply shut the door and say no more immigrants (which I hardly think is going to happen), in my view, we should help create conditions that encourage people to stay put in their current country. And be more selective both in screening new arrivals Before they arrive, combined with far better assimilation programs.

I’m looking at Australia right now. Whilst Australia 3 decades ago needed to increase its population, since early 2000’s, we’ve had an influx of immigrants from South East Asia and India. It is extremely noticeable, particularly in more traditionally middle class & affluent suburbs of main cities such as Sydney. Whilst immigration is not entirely a bad thing, it needs be in proportion to availability of jobs, housing, and other infrastructure. It has to be better controlled, pre and post immigration.


54 posted on 06/29/2015 8:48:38 PM PDT by odds
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To: odds

Gain a restaurant, lose a country.


55 posted on 06/29/2015 9:41:17 PM PDT by ansel12 (libertarians have always been for gay marriage and polygamy, gay Scout leaders, gay military.)
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To: odds

Thank you for the thoughtful post. I don’t disagree with most of what you say.

Though I don’t think we have any obligation to do so in most cases, I would support effective measures to make the third world less hellish and therefore lessen the exodus of people from those lands. Ideally that would be combined with strong enforcement and deportation that makes it clear that anyone who illegally enters Europe (or the U.S. or Australia) that they will not get to stay; they will be sent home.

I don’t disagree about western actions, military and otherwise, leading to some of this. It’s one of the reasons I opposed invading Iraq or getting involved in Syria, or helping topple Kadafi. It was obvious all those things would increase the number of refugees, and it was obvious that the West would be suckers and take in those refugees.


59 posted on 06/30/2015 7:39:16 PM PDT by Aetius
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