Can I see that birth certificate again, please?

Another form of evidence is the concerted, concentrated effort to entice conservative republicans to elect someone who is not a natural born citizen (born in country to citizen parents).

With Rubio, Jindal, Halley or especially(!) Cruz, in the race for the CONSERVATIVE vote, the issue of obama's citizenship finally goes away since EVERYONE in GuvCo has now become equally guilty.

At this point, only forgery is left on the table.

The NBC requirement for Constitutional eligibility has been now been terminally watered down by CONSERVATIVE acquiescence to become meaningless and is no longer a serious requirement.

After this week's Supremely Tortured Court rulings, I'd say the coup is all but complete except for the parts about martial law and purging the population.

Bump!!

Interesting. To me, though, it doesn’t make as much sense. It doesn’t fit Occam’s razor.

TWG and MCG (typical white granny and Midwestern commie grandpa) would not have been proud or accepting in 1961 of a pregnant 17 year old daughter. They would have been, even if not at all racist themselves, very aware that her married man baby daddy being black - thus the child appearing black - would NOT GO OVER WELL for their only child.

Refute that. Everything always has to deal with human nature. Your documentation avoids all synthesis with real human nature. I call it Occam’s Razor.

They would have preferred this problem not destroy their smart daughter’s chances. They had just come from a more normal mainland American society; they had more roots and friends back in Washington, where they moved for a better education for Stanley Ann. All her high school friends were still there. Someone (probably a few someones) had gotten knocked up in her class, and they always went to one of the two unwed mother homes across the border in Vancouver. In nine months they were back in school, continuing their education. Baby was adopted out.

This fits the terrible situation the family was in in 1961. She clearly couldn’t stay at home or attend the university in Hawaii. And no one saw her pregnant there.

Of course she was urged strongly to give up the baby. A white unmarried teen mom with a black baby?? They had to have counseled against ruining both young lives. Adoption by an intact family would give the baby a much better chance at a good life. And the brilliant scholar Stanley Ann, their precious daughter, was destined for great things.

The parents NEVER would have been invested in the married African man who knocked up their daughter, enough to travel to Africa with a pregnant teen girl???? NEVER. Travel to where this statutory rapist lived with his wife and children??. It makes zero sense. Africa, filled with diseases, would they have decent birthing facilities? WHY travel there at that time?

No.

Your hypothesis is crazy on its face. Even today in the day of acceptance of mixed couples and single motherhood, a married couple whose 17 year old daughter became knocked up by a married African national man WOULD NEVER SEND THE DAUGHTER OR JOIN HER TO AFRICA WHEN FAR ALONG IN PREGNANCY. Even in 2015. So how much less believable is it in 1960 when marriage and race were viewed much more seriously?

And stanley Ann was seen with newborn Barack back in Seattle, starting up college again. She didn’t even know how to change his diaper and had to be taught. She wasn’t counseled on baby care at the unwed mothers home because she was planning to give him up for adoption. But the hormones, the desire was too strong and she kept her little baby at the last minute. Parents were not pleased with that, and probably didn’t want her at home just then. So she stayed in Seattle and started college again.

You are wrong. If you are naturally born a citizen of the USA, you are a natural born citizen. It’s a simple question. Were you a citizen of the USA at birth? It’s so easy and so clear to answer this question.

Cruz? Yes. Born to a citizen. McCain? Yes. Born to a citizen. It doesn’t matter where. I had a son in Europe. Went straight to the Embassy, showed my pass and his BC, and boom, he had an American passport. Schwarzenegger? No. Born in Austria to Austrian parents. Will never be a NBC of America. He’s a naturalized citizen.

Obama? Born in Canada like Cruz, but obama’s mother hadn’t lived long enough after the age of 15 to confer citizenship to her son. He was NOT a citizen and would have needed to be nationalized. He thus would never ever be a NBC. His first passport was an INdonesian one. Thus he went to college as a foreign national, and Indonesia probably paid for his undergrad education. *

The only tricky people are the ones whose parents are illegally here. I believe we need to amend the constitution to discontinue the citizenship rights of people born here to illegals (or birth tourists). But I don’t think that will happen. Best hope is to control the border and stop illegal immigration.

* this is one of the most upsetting things to me about Obama. He, as a young adult, had to check NO to the question “Are you an American Citizen?” On all those application documents. AND SOMEHOW HE BECAME OUR PRESIDENT?????????

He has no American pride... for a good reason.

Those who believe as you do have taken what was once a standard for purity and dilluted it to its weakest possible form, making it meaningless.

Citizenship is a form of inheritance you receive from your Father, your Mother and from the land/nation where you were born.

I believe "Natural Born Citizen" is what was used to describe the purest form of citizenship, where all three sources passed along the same thing, thus no divided inheritance or allegiance.

I believe this is what was intended by our FFs for a variety of nationalistic reasons, as well as being in concert with existing legal traditions and standards, as well as human emotion and loyalty.

For example, if you were born in Texas to parents whose families have been in Texas since the Alamo, your status as a "Texan" is different than that of a Texas transplant from NYC, even though you both are legally Texans. In some situations, this emotional reality can be very important.

This pure definition for "NBC" is also what I learned in public school in the late 1960s and early 1970s and what I accept as the original intent and meaning of our Founders. Oh well, that nation is long gone.

By the weak and diluted definition you have provided, Ted Cruz is a natural born citizen of Canada, Cuba and the United States, thus making him a very UN acceptable candidate for this new world order they're building.

And the CONSERVATIVES adore him! Whoa...didn't see that coming.

In a way, like what Vatican II has done to the Church, our new Constitution II (or maybe it's III after last week) has done to US.

And now we're almost done.

Looks like the Founding Fathers were right about that, too, and just look at US now. Too bad we quit honoring our Fathers.

"... or especially(!) Cruz, in the race for the CONSERVATIVE vote, the issue of obama's citizenship finally goes away
since EVERYONE in GuvCo has now become equally guilty."

With Ted Cruz, you've got the WRONG Candidate for your theory.

FACT:

according to the law at that time

What are the rules for people born between December 23, 1952 and November 13, 1986? The 14th Amendment IS a part of the U.S. Constitution and states in SECTION 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. So, under that power to legislate, Congress legislated and the President signed into law: When ONE parent was a US citizen and the other a foreign national,the US citizen parent must have resided in the US for a total of 10 years prior to the birth of the child,with five of the years after the age of 14. ... While there were initially rules regarding what the child must do to retain citizenship,amendments since 1952 HAVE ELIMINATED THESE REQUIREMENTS. When Ted Cruz was born, his parents were "IN WEDLOCK". They married, moved to Calgary, Alberta, and in late 1970 had their first and only child, Rafael Edward Cruz. Cruz was born on December 22, 1970 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada where his parents, Eleanor Elizabeth Darragh Wilson and Rafael Bienvenido Cruz. Cruz's mother was born and raised in Wilmington, Delaware, in a family of three quarters Irish and one quarter Italian descent. Eleanor Darragh, mother of Ted Cruz, was raised in Delaware, graduated from a Catholic High School (1952) in the U.S., as well as Rice University (1956),so clearly she meets the residency requirements. Source In 1957, Rafael Bienvenido Cruz (Ted Cruz's father) decided to get out of Cuba by applying to the University of Texas. Upon being admitted, he adds, he got a four-year student visa at the U.S. Consulate in Havana. "Since he liked to eat seven days a week, he worked seven days a week, and he paid his way through the University of Texas," Ted Cruz says of his father, "and then ended up getting a job and eventually going on to start a small business and to work towards the American dream." Only he did that in Canada, where Ted was born. His father went there after having earlier obtained political asylum in the U.S. when his student visa ran out. He then got a green card, he says, and married Ted's mother, an American citizen. The two of them moved to Canada to work in the oil industry. "I worked in Canada for eight years," Rafael Cruz says. "And while I was in Canada, I became a Canadian citizen." The elder Cruz says he renounced his Canadian citizenship when he finally became a U.S. citizen in 2005 —48 years after leaving Cuba. Why did he take so long to do it?"I don't know. I guess laziness, or — I don't know," he says.

for Ted Cruz to be a "Natural Born Citizen"

“Senator Cruz became a U.S. citizen at birth, and he never had to go through a naturalization process after birth to become a U.S. citizen,” said spokeswoman Catherine Frazier. ... The U.S. Constitution allows only a “natural born” American citizen to serve as president. Most legal scholars who have studied the question agree that includes an American born overseas to an American parent, such as Cruz.

I didn't pick Cruz for "my theory" as you say. The world has done that for me.

These days I'm just an observer to the fall.

You'll notice I have not told you who to vote for or not to vote for, just the reasons for my opinion.

What I do know is that by your definition, Cruz is a Natural Born Citizen of Cuba, a Natural Born Citizen of the United States and a Natural Born Citizen of Canada.

In my opinion, this mixes definitions together and calls virtually any possible combinations and purities all by the same name.

This is a common sort of error running amok in our world, both part of, and a determiner of, our times.

Words mean things until they don't and I think I'll pass on rewriting the dictionary.

I like the old definitions better. They were actually descriptive and accurate, even if feelings got hurt.

Here's how it went.

(Mother had been refused entry to airplanes due to her nine month pregnancy.)

Four days later

"What I do know is that by your definition, Cruz is a Natural Born Citizen of Cuba, a Natural Born Citizen of the United States and a Natural Born Citizen of Canada."

If you're talking about TED CRUZ and hot his father, I wouldn't be so sure about that reference Cuba and Canada.
I have no knowledge of what the laws for Canadian Citizenship are, or for that matter, what the laws are for Cuban Citizenship. But I have shown you the United States requirements for Citizenship at the time of TED CRUZ's birth.

As far as the "old definition", it doesn't matter.
The only thing that matters is what the written law was, at the date of his birth.
But the SCOTUS recent rulings do call into question, just how valid "WRITTEN LAW" is.

"TWG and MCG (typical white granny and Midwestern commie grandpa) would not have been proud or accepting in 1961 of a pregnant 17 year old daughter.
They would have been, even if not at all racist themselves, very aware that her married man baby daddy being black - thus the child appearing black - would NOT GO OVER WELL for their only child.

Refute that... "

You forgot the attention the media was giving the Communist Blacks at the time and Stanley Ann;s parents hatred of everything American.

Look at all the financial supporters Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. had. "In 1959, Obama Sr. received a scholarship in economics through a program organized by nationalist leader Tom Mboya. The program offered Western educational opportunities to outstanding Kenyan students. Initial financial supporters of the program included Harry Belafonte, Sidney Poitier, Jackie Robinson, and Elizabeth Mooney Kirk, a literacy advocate who provided most of the financial support for Obama Sr.'s early years in the United States, according to the Tom Mboya archives at Stanford University. Funds provided the following year by John F. Kennedy's family paid off old debts of the project and subsidized student stipends, thereby indirectly benefiting Obama Sr. and other members of the 1959 group of scholarship holders.

They were HARD-LINED COMMUNISTS.

I believe differently. Every nation has the right to confer citizenship on ANYONE. They can grant citizenship to anyone running for president, and to you that would mean the person is unfit. We must ignore rulings by other sovereign nations and just focus on our own.

If there is a new constitutional convention that would make only those with two citizen parents at time of birth, I’m fine with it. But it won’t happen.

So my way is easier. It’s not “weakening” unless you feel that there should be a master race; I doubt that. If someone is born to an American parent old enough to confer citizenship and not breaking a law to be here, they are NBC. It’s just simple.

Just answer any WHYs in your story. Take human nature into account.

Why would they all go to Africa with their pregnant teen?

Gramps seems like a selfish, lazy communist. More interested in hookers and booze and the couch. Typical White Granny seems like the one who had to work her way up to support the lazy ass men in her household. She seems responsible and hard working if a little corrupt (no doubt it was she who found some Certified Pre-owned SS numbers for her 16 year old grandson so he could work at a legitimate job scooping ice cream instead of blowing white tourists).

I respect and accept that you think you believe and define words differently than I do, just as I accept that yours might now be the majority opinion or that mine is not in line with what is popular.

Just to be clear, I believe citizenship is a form of inheritance and you receive what is called "natural born citizenship" naturally, without regard to law and treaty of man, at the moment of your birth, and that whatever it (citizenship) might be, it comes from your father and your mother and the land/nation where you were born.

Since the word "Natural" (instead of "Native") is clearly specified, I ask you, what of your birth with regards to citizenship is because of nature and nature alone?

You have a Father. You have a Mother. You came into the world someplace.

These are the naturally occurring universal FACTS of your, my and everyone else's birth.

That's as universally uncomplicated as it gets.

It's what we do with those facts that makes it complicated, but that's us humans, not nature.

You can only receive what someone/something has to pass on, right and I believe each of those three to be equal contributors, not one favored over another other, nor one or two deleted altogether. Three equal parts of the whole.

When all three contributors pass along the same thing, in my case American citizenship, then that person is a natural born citizen so I am a natural born citizen of the US. I can be nothing else, as nothing else was passed to me at birth.

Throughout history, other terms have used to describe types/forms/examples of citizenship where the three contributors, father, mother, place of birth, do not pass along the same citizenship, as in Ted Cruz's case.

We, the people, could use those old meanings as we used to use them, but that would mean our facing some difficult decisions and choices and worse about recent actions.

Nope. Screw that. Not gonna do it, even if for all the right reasons, as well as for our general integrity. Not happening.

Besides, it's far easier, or as you might say, more "simple", to rewrite the dictionary than it is to rewrite the Constitution or natural law and here we are.

Words can mean whatever you want them to. Just ask John Roberts. "You gotta problem with that?"

So...what do you think the new non-master race flag should look like?

Maybe my past complicates my thinking. My father was stripped from his native citizenship at age 7. He spent most of his youth as a Displaced Person with no country, though he grew to love both the countries that deigned to take him in: one raised him with loving Foster parents (UK) and one allowed him to work three jobs to get an advanced degree and become successful (USA).

Your way to determine NBC is actually what I used to believe. I even believed my son, born in another country, would never be able to run for President. I’ve changed my thinking, probably around the McCain campaign time when the subject was discussed here so much. I do believe that if ONE parent is American and of age, and lived most of his or her recent life in the USA, their child is natural born. We can agree to disagree.

I am grateful for my second passport because I have never trusted that the USA will always be my beloved home. I am highly patriotic for this land, its people in general, and especially for our Constitution. But should things take an evil turn (imaginable) I have elsewhere to shelter and I can provide that for my children even once I am gone. A lot of my ancestors perished in Nazi Germany because they had no way to escape.

I really am OK with your definition but mine allows more children of immigrants a chance at the Presidency, and it is a bit easier to define. I’m good either way.

Thanks for sharing your experience. You write it well and it helps me to understand you and what is behind your belief.

The older I get, the better I appreciate how some rules might not seem fair and how some truly inconvenience me, but at the same time they also are for a greater good, that may or may not be obvious, and therefore protect me.

I see how the Constitution, as well as natural law, tend to be written like this.

I also can see that we are hell bent to rewrite both.

Like is frequently the case with history's lessons, we won't know what we've lost until it's gone, unfortunately.

One thing I forgot to mention? You reminded me of it when you mentioned both Nazis and made an off handed (and not taken seriously) remark about “weakening” alluding to a master race.

Obviously (I hope it was obvious), I was not. In fact, the strict NBC definition seems to work in reverse, believe it or not, and away from the Master Race/Nazi thing, not lead to it.

Whatever your opinion of the Founding Fathers, I think there is method behind their madness with regard to the strict definition of Natural Born Citizenship (Born in country to citizen parents) as an eligibility requirement for POTUS. In fact, history soon proved the soundness of their requirement.

One or more of the following are often considered to be an “Antichrist” and, all combined, they have probably killed more people other than God did during the Flood.

And, coincidently(???), not one of them was a true Natural Born Citizen of the country that gave them power:

Napoléon Bonaparte (1769 – 1821) was not a Natural Born Citizen of France. He born in Corsica.
Adolf Hitler (1889 – 1945) was not a Natural Born Citizen of Germany. He was born in Austria.
Joseph Stalin (1878 –1953) was not a Natural Born Citizen of Russia. He was born an ethnic Georgian, (though Georgia was a part of the Russian Empire at the time).

I’m sure there are others I didn’t think of, and that there will be others in the future, perhaps one of our “own” in our future. We are trending that way.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the psychology behind this "coincidence" might be, but to me it looks significant.

History seems to agree and offers some lessons that might explain why.

Lastly, for what it’s worth…Barack Hussein Obama.

We could have dodged that bullet had we followed the strict definition I believe they gave us to save US.

I agree with you on Obama. Though even my definition of NBC would have him ineligible. It is not for nothing that his “view from the outside” on our country has been so harmful. Unfortunately, Rush (lol), he did not fail. I think you are onto something with the leaders who wanted to fit in, nay, CONTROL EVERYONE who made them feel left out earlier in life. Psychology is huge in all aspects of life.

I have nothing but pure respect and veneration for the Founding Fathers as a whole. We owe them everything. The world does. I wish I could thank them in a way they could appreciate. When my kids are old enough I would literally fight to the death for this country. I still believe.