Family of Brazilian shot dead by UK police take case to European court [thought he was bomber]

Reuters ^ | 6/10/15 | Michael Holden

[markomalley]

The family of Jean Charles de Menezes, a Brazilian electrician shot dead 10 years ago by London police who thought he was a suicide bomber, will launch a bid at a European Court on Wednesday to demand the officers involved face criminal action.

De Menezes was shot seven times in the head by specialist firearms officers as he boarded an underground train at Stockwell station in south London on July 22, 2005.

The shooting came the day after four Islamists had unsuccessfully tried to bomb the British capital's transport network and police wrongly thought he was Hussein Osman, one of the militants.

British security services were on a high state of alert anyway as two weeks earlier four young British Muslims had killed 52 people and themselves in bombings on three underground trains and a bus in the most deadly peacetime attack in Britain.

"For 10 years our family has been campaigning for justice for Jean because we believe that police officers should have been held to account for his killing," Patricia Armani Da Silva, de Menezes's cousin, said in a statement.

[Lion Den Dan]

Twitter lipped Brit cops probally have no business with firearms. They are as bad as many American cops.

[spetznaz]

That's not necessarily true. The 'police' (more on why that is in quotes later) who engaged the poor Brazilian were extremely well trained in firearms, and the policy of immediately rushing in and shooting someone several times in the head was developed to prevent suicide bombers from detonating their package (it is an Israeli-developed approach called 'Kratos'). These 'police' made the mistake of thinking the Brazilian was a known Jihadi, and the moment they made their move it was done!

As for the 'police' ...if they were actual cops then they were highly trained SO-19 personnel, who are very different from a typical beat cop in some American college town. On the other hand, there is a chance they were British special forces (SBS or SAS depending on which unit had in-country overwatch), and if that's the case then you have a unit directly equivalent to SEAL Team 6 (the British SBS) or Delta Force (the British SAS).

It was a very sad mistake, and per the Kratos protocol once initiated there is no time to double-check if the initial check was erroneous. A very sad case.

[The_Victor]

After reading the rest of the Reuters article, it looks to me like a problem with the militarization of the police force. They get all the cool stuff that the military has without the command and control structure to insure rules of engagement safeguards are in place. The police superiors need to be held accountable.

[Gen.Blather]

Public transportation exposes you to suicide bombers, disease, obnoxious travelers and other dangers. Give me a personal car anytime.

When I worked for an Israeli company, everybody knew somebody who had been killed by terrorists. When I got the stories, it seemed many were killed by public transport bombers. Some were killed by rockets. I wish I’d kept a list as it would be interesting to know where you are most likely to be hurt or killed.

One employee was waiting for the bus. He could see it stop down the street. A big, fat woman in traditional Arab dress got on board. She blew up the bus killing everybody. Close call.

[wideawake]

The guy was an illegal immigrant who did not know English and ignored repeated commands to stop running, drop his heavy knapsack, and raise his hands.

If you are going to live in a country it is your responsibility to know the language and comply with that country's officials' instructions, it is not the job of the police to intuit that you are a "good" criminal (illegal immigrant) instead of a "bad" criminal (terrorist).

[heartwood]

And if men in street clothes start chasing me what am I to do? Who may or may not be yelling “police”, who may or may not be intelligible?

[heartwood]

"In his first public comments on the incident, Mr Livock said that while the tube, which he had boarded at Clapham North, was waiting at Stockwell station, he heard shouts from outside of something like "he's here". Seconds later, a man entered the carriage and pointed a gun at Mr de Menezes, he said.

Asked by Nicholas Hilliard QC, counsel to the inquest, "Did you hear him saying anything to Mr de Menezes?" Mr Livock said: "Absolutely not."

Mr Livock earlier said that at first he had thought that the group of plain-clothes officers, who were wielding guns when they ran on to the Tube at Stockwell, might be "a group of lads who were just having a laugh".

He said that he and his girlfriend, Rachel Wilson, who was with him, only realised something more serious was taking place when Mr de Menezes was shot dead at point blank range. "One of my initial thoughts was it was all a game and they were a group of lads who were just having a laugh - a very bad taste laugh but just having a game on the Tube, because they were just dressed in jeans and t-shirts but with firearms," Mr Livock said.

Mr Hilliard asked: "Had you heard anything said about police?"

Mr Livock replied: "No, certainly not. And I remember that specifically because one of the conversations that Rachel and I had afterwards was that we had no idea whether these were police, whether they were terrorists, whether they were somebody else. We just had no idea."

The Telegraph 2008

[wideawake]

Livock was not privy to the entire pursuit - he was there for the last few seconds of the encounter.

He is also, as his testimony implies, not the sharpest tool in the shed.