Posted on 05/14/2015 4:32:54 PM PDT by lowbridge
My point about flags on firetrucks - full size, no less - is they drag on the vehicle ITSELF. Never mind it is getting flooded with exhaust. Letting it touch anything or get blatantly dirty in any fashion is part of the code, regardless of flag situation.
The Code itself states for vehicles:
(b) The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender.*
*Note: this was changed in ‘76 apparently (my book from the ‘61 has the original). The original wording is “radiator cap”, not “right fender”. The cap was front and center.
To read this, it might be surmised that it is OK to drape the flag over the FRONT of the vehicle, as the only thing not mentioned (trunks, per se, did not exist then, so perhaps the writers did not think of saying “trunk lid”; I guess we can drape it there too). Chasses are very hard to access these days, so apparently that leaves right fender (new language). Which one might think means front OR back. Again, new-fangled only. In the old days, it was “rad cap”, which was only ever front and center.
I can see the confusion over this; but reading the rest of the code, I think it’s plain the intention. The flag is always to be in the front in other processional issues (what are positions on President’s car lately? I always saw SMALL flags - less easily desecrated - on the FRONT of the fenders), and in most groupings. I do not know why it would be different here. Likewise with the sections regarding soiling:
.....
The flag should *never touch anything* beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
.....
The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored *in such a manner* as to permit it to be *easily torn, soiled, or damaged* in any way.
He looks like pajama boy.
No, I’m not.
Seriously, it really isn’t the right way.
However, I know the purpose of this punishment, and it is not because the school is so worried about correct treatment of the Flag.
It is indeed ridiculous in its intention.
These people can only be cured with lead.
This type of determined, in the streets, loud activism is what’s needed. It’s the only thing that works anymore.
The other side has used it effectively for years, it’s about time we who are the majority started using it too.
More “educators” gone wild. Many of them abuse children just as in this instance. Fools.
The system (local press) is trying to protect him/her. They’re in bed together.
I frankly don’t understand what you’re on about.
I don’t understand the firetruck reference at all. But I think your argument about exhaust is specious. I’m thinking about boats and where the flags are placed in regards to exhaust. No, you don’t put the flag directly in the exhaust - but she has weathered lots worse than some exhaust swirling around her.
The young man did violate flag etiquette by placing the flag on the left instead of the right - an easy mistake in automobile culture. Otherwise, he was fine.
Vinyl Wrap the Truck in a Flag motif.
The words I quoted are from the Code. It is not specious.
The flag should not be put in a position where it is easily soiled; so stated in Code. Putting it on the rear as many of our firetrucks do (never mind others including plain p/u’s) is blatantly putting it in harm’s way with exhaust, dirt spray from rear tires, and touching other dirty items (such as the vehicle itself), e.g.
That is what I am on about.
I know it is not his intention, nor is it many others’. However, it still puts the flag in a bad position, including “in the back”, rather than out in front as they really should be.
I think the minor changes in ‘76 and so on did not go far enough. It is obvious what the historical meaning was, and has gotten a bit lost with the “new words”.
OK I finally looked at the truck in question.
His placement of the flag places it in danger of touching the (dirty) top of the roof, and the fender, as well as the possibility of the wheel well - disaster. It may also be touching the bed of the truck as is.
Again, I’m just talking strict rules - especially the spirit of the rules.
I don’t mean the boy has to be suspended, or chastised, or otherwise punished.
The code doesn’t say exhaust swirling around - it says nothing about exhaust....that is your misapplication. Heavens - according to your standard you couldn’t carry a flag in a parade, because of all the exhaust swirling around.
A standard tenet of law and logic is this: the specific supersedes the general. In this case “in danger of being soiled” and “torn” are general. The specific naming of the position on the pickup is....specific. Except for the side he put it on - a clear violation of the code about which you are silent - the kid was fine.
Careful, you are becoming like some religionists...more concerned about the rules than the object or person of veneration.
I could make the case that any placement of the flag outside a hermetically sealed case puts it in danger of being soiled or torn. And I would be right. If I were more concerned about strict application of the code than anything else, I would be right. I think you are getting to that edge when you talk about exhaust swirling around and touching the truck and the possibility of being torn while flapping in the wind.
The SPIRIT of the code is to DISPLAY the flag,not treat her as a fragile snowflake.
The kid displayed the flag with pride and honor, he got the sides mixed up, but other than that he was in compliance with SPECIFIC mentions in the code of proper display. He definitely comported with the spirit of the code.
HE DID FINE.
C’mon, quit making things up. The bed of a pickup is specifically mentioned in my cite. Also, may I refresh your memory about the proper placement of the “ensign” on a boat:
“Generally, the national ensign should be displayed at the peak of the gaff, i.e., the outer end of the spar extending aft from the mast of your boat—if your boat has a gaff. If it does not, fly it from the flagstaff at your boat’s stern. If your boat has an overhanging boom or an outboard motor, your flagstaff may be offset to starboard (preferably) from your boat’s centerline.”
Aft means behind, stern means rear. And speaking of exhaust....
Far more respect than ceding to a ban of displaying Old Glory....I have an old ball cap with the flag on it and it states, "These Colors Don't Run"....
ping
So now we’re drawing lines as to how some people interpret the display of the flag? This is right, no, this is right.
These are young people of this country, and you should be happy that they even think about the Stars and Stripes at all. It seems that most of this generation wish to deny all it stand for.
In this case, the flag was displayed in a position of reverence.
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