1 womb, 2 dads: Judge rules man must only support one twin, report says

NJ.com ^ | May 7, 2015

[Boogieman]

“for my vast religious cheering section here, smile smile, recall that there is a possible reading of scripture to the effect that twins Cain and Abel had different fathers (Abel’s daddy being who you expected while Cain’s being Satan himself)”

Well, there are a few problems with that theory. First, the Bible doesn’t say Cain and Abel were twins, but that’s a minor point, since the real issue is the fatherhood. Now, the theory goes that the serpent was the father of Cain, and Adam the father of Abel, but Genesis 4 says:

“1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.”

Note the order. The first time, it says specifically that Eve conceived after Adam “knew” her, so the parentage here is indisputable. However, the child she bore in that verse is Cain, not Abel! The second verse is the verse where Adam is not specifically mentioned as the father. So if anyone’s parentage could be in dispute, it would have to be Abel’s, not Cain’s.

[Bigg Red]

Two different fathers for a set of twins? What? Is this woman an alley cat?

[Bigg Red]

Yep!

[PLMerite]

“The man who was believed to have fathered twin girls in Passaic County actually only fathered one of them...”

Dear Penthouse...

[dayglored]

> nevermind - must read before posting

Nah, that takes all the fun and excitement out of it.

[Coleus]

this lady loves to screw around..I wonder how many sexual transmitted diseases she has had...and how many other children does she have..and how many have been aborted?

such a sad case and a pathetic way to live your life.

[Rodamala]

Patterson, NJ.... you might recall that the Muslims were cheering in the streets there on September 11, 2001.

[Lorianne]

The men apparently are

[trebb]

"Judge Sohail Mohammed..." This is not a good sign.

Perhaps not, but it was a good ruling.

[Bigg Red]

also

[faithhopecharity]

We that makes it even more fun, ha!!! Thanks. Between the two of us, we may unintentionally get a whole hoarde of FRers upset — ha— this bring the kind of thing that arouses some people here. Ok. Either way, then, Cain/Abel could serve as an illustration of the possibility of twins having different daddies.

[Boogieman]

Not really, as I said, the Bible doesn’t actually say they were twins. It also doesn’t say they had different fathers. You might as well speculate that Satan is Jesus’ brother for all the support you could find in the Bible.

[faithhopecharity]

OK. I was happy to drop it but since it IS interesting and you’re still hot to trot (?)....
ha!

Here’s some early commentary about it, and after you “enjoy” this I can even send you some more, different interesting stuff about Cain/Abel....

have fun!
All the best,
fhc

---

Chapter XXII (BERESHITHj

i. And the man knew Eve his wife (iv, i):
Remember, O Lord, Thy compassions and Thy mercies, for
they have been from of old (Ps. xxv, 6). R. Joshua b.
Nehemiah interpreted it: [Show Thy mercies] wherewith
Thou didst treat Adam, for thus saidst Thou to him,
For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die
(Gen. II, 17), and hadst Thou not given him one day of
Thine, which is a thousand years, how could he have applied
himself to begetting posterity [descendants]? Hence,
And the man knew, etc. 1

2. And the man knew, etc. R. Huna and R.
Jacob in R. Abba’s name said : No creature ever copulated
before Adam : it is not written, man knew, but And
the man 2 ; knew intimates that he made known sexual
functions to all. [Another interpretation]: He knew how
he had been robbed of his tranquillity ; he knew what his
serpent [i.e. Eve, his tempter] had done to him. 3 R. Aha
observed: The serpent was thy serpent, and thou wast
Adam’s serpent. 4

And she conceived and bore Cain. R. Eleazar
b. ‘Azariah said: Three wonders were performed on that
day : on that very day they were created, on that very day
they cohabited, and on that very day they produced off-
spring. R. Joshua b. Karhah said: Only two entered the
bed, and seven left it: Cain and his twin sister, Abel and
his two twin sisters. 5

And she said: I have gotten a man, etc. R.
Isaac said: When a woman sees that she has children she
exclaims, “Behold, my husband is now in my possession/ 6

1 Cf. supra, vni, 2; Num. R.xxm, 13.

2 The def . art. implies that he was so far unique in this respect.

3 Viz. she aroused sexual desire. Thus knew is referred to both the
preceding verses (Adam’s expulsion from the Garden of Eden) and the
following ones (sexual gratification).

* Supra, XX, 11. s Infra, xxiv, 6; v. Sanh. 38^ 586.

e I.e. a child binds husband to wife. He translates: I have now a man

(sc. Adam) in my possession, through having given birth to Cain.

180

GENESIS (BERESHITH) [XXII. 2~4

With the help of (eth) the Lord. R. Ishmael
asked R. Akiba : ‘ Since you have served 1 Nahum of Gimzo
for twenty-two years, [and he taught], Every ok and rah
is a limitation, while every eth and gam is an extension,
tell me what is the purpose of the eth written here?’
‘If it said, “I have gotten a man the Lord/” he replied,
‘ it would have been difficult [to interpret] 2 ; hence eth
[with the help of] the Lord is required. 1 There-
upon he quoted to him : For it is no empty thing from you
(Deut. xxxii, 47), and if it is empty, it is so on your account, 3
because you do not know how to interpret it. Rather,
eth the Lord [teaches this]: In the past, Adam
was created from the ground, and Eve from Adam; but
henceforth it shall be, In our image, after our likeness
(Gen. 1, 26): neither man without woman nor woman
without man, nor both of them without the Shechinah^

3. And again (wa-tosef) she bore his
brother Abel (iv, 2). This supports what R. Joshua
b. Karhah said: They ascended the bed two and descended
seven, for And she again bore implies an additional
birth, but not an additional pregnancy. 5

And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain
was a tiller of the ground. Three had a passion
for agriculture, and no good was found in them: Cain,
Noah, and Uzziah. Cain was a tiller of the
ground; Noah the husbandman (Gen. ix, 20); Uzziah:
For he loved husbandry (11 Chron. xxvi, 10). 6

4. And at the end of days it came to pass
(iv, 3). R. Eliezer and R. Joshua disagree. R. Eliezer
said: The world was created in Tishri; R. Joshua said:

1 I.e. studied under. The term * served’ is generally employed because

disciples gave personal service to their teachers.

8 It might imply that she had begotten the Lord.

a Cf. supra, 1, 14. 4 Supra, vm, 9. This agrees with the E.V.

5 Abel having been conceived simultaneously with Cain. The additional
birth therefore is that two twin sisters were born with Abel, but only
one with Cain.

6 Cain became a murderer, Noah a drunkard, and Uzziah a leper.

181

[faithhopecharity]

ps: actually I see its late and I have to sign off from here for awhile. so, here is further interesting stuff I mentioned in my note of a minute ago.......this being the Book of Jubilees' spin on Cain/Abel... for your entertainment... have fun! all my best, fhc ---------------------------------- Cain and Abel (iv. 1-12; cf. Gen. iv.). IV. And in the third week in the second jubilee 64-70 A.M. she gave birth to Cain, and in the fourth she gave birth 71-77 A.M. to Abel, and in the fifth she gave birth to her daughter 78-84 A.M. ’Âwân. 3 2. And in the first (year) of the third jubilee, 99-105 A.M. Cain slew Abel because (God) accepted the sacrifice of Abel, and did not accept the offering of Cain. 3. And he slew him in the field: and his blood cried from the ground to heaven, complaining because he had slain him. 4 4. And the Lord reproved Cain because of Abel, because he had slain him, and he made him a fugitive on the earth because of the blood of his brother, and he cursed him upon the earth. 5 5. And on this account it is written on the heavenly tables, "Cursed is he who smiteth his neighbour treacherously, and let all who have seen and heard say, So be it; and the man who hath seen and not declared (it), let him be accursed as the other." 6. And for this reason we announce when we come before the Lord our God all the sin which is committed in heaven and on earth, and in light and in darkness, and everywhere. 7. And Adam and his wife mourned for Abel four weeks of years, and in the fourth year (99-127) 130 A.M. of the fifth week they became joyful, and Adam knew p. 52 his wife again, and she bare him a son, and he 1 called his name Seth; for he said "God hath raised up a second seed unto us on the earth instead of Abel; for Cain slew him." 2 8. And in the sixth week he 134-140 A.M. begat his daughter ’Azûrâ. 9. And Cain took ’Âwân his sister to be his wife and she bare him Enoch 3 at 190-196 A.M. the close of the fourth jubilee. And in the first year of the first week of the fifth jubilee, houses were built 197 A.M. on the earth, and Cain built a city, and called its name after the name of his son Enoch. 10. And Adam knew Eve his wife and she bare yet nine sons. 4 225-231 A.M. 11. And in the fifth week of the fifth jubilee Seth took ’Azûrâ his sister to be his wife, and in the fourth 235 A.M. (year of the sixth week) she bare him Enos. 5 12. He 6 began to call on the name of the Lord on the earth. Footnotes 51:3 i.e. "iniquity" (Heb. ’āwen). Another daughter, ’Azûrâ (= "well guarded"), was born later. Cain married ’Âwân and Seth ’Azûrâ. There is great divergence as to these names in later writers . According to Pirḳe de R. Eliezer, Cain's wife was his twin-sister (xxi.). 51:4 Cf. Gen. iv. 4, 5, 8, 10. 51:5 Cf. Gen. iv. 11-12. 51:6 Cf. Deut. xxvii. 24. 52:1 So Sam.; but MT "she." In our Book it is generally the father who names the child. 52:2 Cf. Gen. iv. 25. 52:3 Cf. Gen. iv. 17. 52:4 Pseudo-Philo, Bibl. Antiq., gives the names of these nine sons. 52:5 Cf. Gen. iv. 26. 52:6 So LXX and Vulg.; but MT "then it was begun (men began)."

[Boogieman]

I really don’t put any stock in rabbinical commentaries. They aren’t even in agreement with each other, so what do they have to teach us?

[RedHeeler]

Ahhh, ain’t that cute....

[faithhopecharity]

i see them like academic texts or treatises....
mostly written by very very very intelligent, smart students of scripture
....I read them and see what portion(s) sound right....discernment... and then I just drop the other parts that don’t make sense to me

If you happen to have a few rooms full of academic books and publications on theoligical topics.... its much the same...
some parts of the professors’ books make terriffic good sense and help understand or interpret passages we otherwise may not have adequately understood

other professors’ writings can be junko.

the similarity is particularly appropriate given that the rabbinic commentaries were the academic theological treatises and debates of their day

at any event, consider it a trip to your local Costco store. buy just the stuff you want to buy. leave the rest.
(but be SURE to pick up one of their spectacularly good hot dogs on your way out, ha!)

happy day,

[__rvx86]

1. It's called "superfecundation," where sperm fertilise an egg in separate sexual acts, during the same menstrual cycle.

In contrast, a normal fraternal-twin pregnancy assumes both eggs are already present in the reproductive tract, and are fertilised at the same time.

Supposedly, it is common in monogamous couples, but the same man is the father of both children; externally, it looks like any other normal fraternal-twin pregnancy.

It can only be proved in cases such as this, where neither twin has the same father.

2. The bigger question is: How is a sleeper terrorist a JUDGE, of any kind?

[delchiante]

It is an interesting study..

There appears to be only one ‘conception’ detailed and it follows with the birth of Cain.
And then she bare Abel.
It is silent on a 2nd ‘conception’..

I suspect it doesn’t have to state a 2nd conception but a concordance search shows a lot of ‘conceiving’ before ‘birth is announced..

Strongs#2029