then after I showed you overwhelming evidence that your statement was wrong, you change it to post 77 I really don’t care to get into what the Vatican did or didn’t do
If you don't care about this, why make that false statement?
The Israeli Consul to Italy after the war, Rabbi Pinchas Lapide, credited the Holy See with directly saving 860,000 Jewish lives. When he died, Pius XII was eulogized by Golda Meir on the floor of the UN General Assembly. I guess you know more than she did about who did and didn't oppose the Holocaust?
The Good Samaritan: Jewish Praise for Pius XII
Even the Wikipedia article is far more balanced.
It contains the following reaction by leading Nazi Reinhard Heydrich to Pope Pius XII's Christmas address of 1942:
In a manner never known before, the Pope has repudiated the National Socialist New European Order. His radio allocution was a masterpiece of clerical falsification of the National Socialist Weltanschauung...the Pope does not refer to the National Socialists in Germany by name, but his speech is one long attack on everything we stand for...God, he says, regards all peoples and races as worthy of the same consideration. Here he is clearly speaking on behalf of the Jews...That this speech is directed exclusively against the New Order in Europe as seen in National Socialism is clear in the papal statement that mankind owes a debt to 'all who during the war have lost their Fatherland and who, although personally blameless have, simply on account of their nationality and origin, been killed or reduced to utter destitution.' Here he is virtually accusing the German people of injustice towards the Jews, and makes himself the mouthpiece of the Jewish war criminals.Do you really want to claim that the Nazis didn't know exactly where they stood with Pius XII, and somehow him "speaking out" would have accomplished something worthwhile? Seriously?
Incidentally, the whole "Pius XII acquiesced to the Holocaust" lie was a fabrication by the KGB.
Caww (post 113): I will not admit to saying anything wrong.
Leaning Right in reply in post 31: That is simply an astounding statement. You speak of Poland as if it were some sort of an ally of Germany. I do agree with you that many, maybe even most, Poles knew that something horrible was going on. But what in the world would you have the average Pole do?
Note that I am not talking about the relatively few collaborators. I'm talking about the average Pole, who lived under a brutal occupation. What would you have him do?
Reply from caww? crickets
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then Caww (post 113 in reply to something else): I will not admit to saying anything wrong.
Cronos post 67: Firstly, caww -- there was no Poland (see my post above) -- it ceased to exist in 1939
Secondly, Poles were also tossed into German concentration camps
Thirdly the Armia Krajowe (the partisan anti-occupation underground) told the British and the American governments about the death camps -- but FDR and Churchill did nothing about this and the press did nothing either
Finally -- why were there so many camps on what was Polish territory? Because that's where most of Europe's Jewry was -- the Germans were and are efficient -- it's more efficient to kill people where they live rather than truck them a thousand miles away
And, btw, people were aware -- that's why the Israeli Yad Vashem (Righteous Gentiles), on that, the largest group of people who saved Jews are Poles.
In the Polish territories, unlike ANYWHERE else in occupied Europe, if you protected or helped a Jew, you and your family would be sent to the camps yourself or shot. So you took the risk of getting your family killed. Yet many Poles took that risk for their fellow Poles who were Jewish.
Reply from caww? crickets
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then Caww (post 113 in reply to something else): I will not admit to saying anything wrong.
Cronos post 68: With due respect, your statement is wrong on many, many levels
And the Warsaw Ghetto uprising of 1943 was supported by Poles -- the GErman officer in charge of the liquidation wrote
When we invaded the Ghetto for the first time, the Jews and the Polish bandits succeeded in repelling the participating units, including tanks and armored cars, by a well-prepared concentration of fire. [...] The main Jewish battle group, mixed with Polish bandits, had already retired during the first and second day to the so-called Muranowski Square. There it was reinforced by a considerable number of Polish bandits. Its plan was to hold the Ghetto by every means in order to prevent us from invading it. [...] Time and again Polish bandits found refuge in the Ghetto and remained there undisturbed, since we had no forces at our disposal to comb out this maze. [...] One such battle group succeeded in mounting a truck by ascending from a sewer in the so-called Prosta [Street], and in escaping with it (about 30 to 35 bandits). ... The bandits and Jews – there were Polish bandits among these gangs armed with carbines, small arms, and in one case a light machine gun – mounted the truck and drove away in an unknown directiomAnd finally A year later, during the 1944 Warsaw Uprising, Batalion Zośka, one of the most notable Polish insurgent units, liberated hundreds of Jews from the Gęsiówka section of the Warsaw Concentration Camp
Please do read the history, caww
Reply from caww? crickets
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then Caww (post 113 in reply to something else): I will not admit to saying anything wrong.
Really caww — you’ve changed your screen name from caww to ENWW? Why?