Why the Confederacy Lives

Politico Magazine ^ | April 08, 2015 | EUAN HAGUE

[lqcincinnatus]

One hundred-fifty years after Appomattox, many Southerners still won’t give up.

One hundred fifty years ago, on April 9th, 1865, Gen. Robert E. Lee surrendered at Appomattox Court House and the Union triumphed in the Civil War. Yet the passage of a century and a half has not dimmed the passion for the Confederacy among many Americans. Just three weeks ago, the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV) appeared before the Supreme Court arguing for the right to put a Confederate flag on vanity license plates in Texas. Just why would someone in 2015 want a Confederate flag on their license plate? The answer is likely not a desire to overtly display one’s genealogical research skills; nor can it be simplistically understood solely as an exhibition of racism, although the power of the Confederate flag to convey white supremacist beliefs cannot be discounted.

Rather, displaying the Confederate flag in 2015 is an indicator of a complex and reactionary politics that is very much alive in America today. It is a politics that harks back to the South’s proud stand in the Civil War as a way of rallying opinion against the federal government—and against the country’s changing demographic, economic, and moral character, of which Washington is often seen as the malign author. Today’s understanding of the Confederacy by its supporters is thus neither nostalgia, nor mere heritage; rather Confederate sympathy in 2015 is a well-funded and active political movement (which, in turn, supports a lucrative Confederate memorabilia industry).

[rockrr]

First I remind them that the spelling is “Sumter”. And then I laugh at the foolishness of such a far-fetched notion.

[rockrr]

They didn’t obviate Massachusetts’s responsibility by virtue of the Fugitive Slave Act or taney’s Prigg v. Pennsylvania to render aid to slavers in the capture of runaway slaves. And it didn’t “just end slavery” in the other states.

[jeffersondem]

I thought that would be your answer. Just seeking confirmation.

[rockrr]

Happy to oblige ;’)

[NTHockey]

I am really tired over all these Civil War threads. A thousand entries, no minds are changed and once again we wage war - a war of words, but a war nonetheless.

THE CIVIL WAR WAS OVER SLAVERY. WHAT WE FORGET IS THAT SLAVERY WAS CONSTITUTIONALLY LEGAL; THUS A STATE RIGHT. THE SOUTH WAS RIGHT.

[FatherofFive]

then it must suck to be you because there is no “free” place on earth.

It must really suck to give up the dream of Liberty so easily. I will continue to fight for what you give away.

[BillyBoy]

>> The damnyankees had slaves in the north all throughout and after the war. Try again. <<

The few "northern" states that had slavery (if you can count Kentucky and Missouri as "northern") were the ones most sympathetic to the confederate cause. The CSA even tried to count them as members of the Confederacy in spite of the fact that they DIDN'T secede, due to the large number of pro-slavery citizens in those states that were cheering on the CSA's efforts.

The north did not have slaves after the war, slavery was abolished by the 13th amendment. We could do that because the United States of America allows for the abolition of slavery, UNLIKE the constitution of the Confederate States of America, which explicitly forbid abolishing slavery. (by the way, the CSA constitution also said nothing about "states rights" and sometimes even placed MORE restrictions on state powers than the US constitution had)

Try again.

[yldstrk]

The Union generals were uncouth degenerates.

[rockrr]

Yea and the southron pResident was a cross-dresser. Happy now? ;’)

[rockrr]

I haven’t given anything away. I also don’t live in a fantasy world.

[FirstFlaBn]

The early Repulicans were the equivaalent of present day libs. After agreeing to the Compromise of 1850 as Whigs, they started a new party so they could denounce the law.

Just like Hillary, Lurch, and Biden voted for the Iraq war resolution and immediately started criticizing it when Bush employed its provisions.

Just like modern libs want Israel to give up some tangible and permanent (West Bank land) for a promise of future peace (an intangible), the South accepted the promise of stricter enforcement of the fugitve slave laws for the admission of California as a state.

If you must negotiate with statists, avoid accepting an unenforceable promise for a tangible. (Now that I think about it, sounds kinda like GWH Bush accepting the promise of future spending cuts for today’s tax increases - or maybe the 1986 promise of border enforcement for legalizing 3 million - or Wimpy’s “I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.”

The South should have seceded in the early 1850s - when there were plenty of constitutionalists on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line. Much better chance of reconciliation and compromise then.

[Nowhere Man]

OK, if I was around then, I would have sided with the Confederacy although some of my ancestors did fight for the Union. The big issues were States Rights and trade. I cannot divorce slavery from the issue all the way but it was a part of it although it became front and center more as the time went on. Slavery, as bad and evil as it was, was the normal thing in human history up to that time but even then, it was on its way out.

If I had to call it had the Confederacy won, slavery's days were numbered. Within a generation, you had the development of the internal combustion engine and electric motor. To put it bluntly, why have Roofus, Jupiter and Mammy do your work when you can have Westinghouse, Allis Chalmers and John Deere do it and do it better? You just have to "feed" them gas, diesel or electricity and some maintenance and they will keep doing the work without mouthing off or running away. I think after the manumission of slaves dues to technology and international pressure, I'll admit it is unclear but when I think of things like "The Knights of the Golden Circle" and the plans to extend Confederate influence into the Carribean, I can foresee the drive for them to establish a nation or reservation on some of the islands for freed slaves much like the idea of repatriation of freed slaves to Liberia in our timeline.

The Confederacy's biggest mistake? Firing of Fort Sumter. Very rarely, the one who throws the first punch earns any sympathy unless there are huge and dire circumstances.

I see it this way:

First American Revolution, 1775 - 1783, - Won
Second American Revolution, 1861 - 1865, Lost
Third American Revolution, 20?? - 20??, ??????? Tiebreaker?

It's cool to speculate on alternate history but as time goes on, we need to come back to the hear and now and look at the future. There are divisions in this country that are just as deep now and sometimes I wonder if we do need to separate. If so, I hope it is a peaceful one but we must be prepared to fight and win if need be even though we pray to God we do not have to.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

The purpose for the Emancipation Proclamation was to keep Britain from supporting the South.

Britain looked forward to an independent Confederate nation with whom to trade for cotton. The North had stiff tariffs on cotton, which financially hurt both the Southern states and Britain — the South sold less cotton than they would without the tariffs, and Britain would have paid lower costs for the cotton.

The enormous success of General Lee’s armies early in the war emboldened Britain to ally with the Confederacy and offer supplies for them at the very least, and possibly naval support.

Great Britain had just abolished slavery in 1833 - just one generation before.

The Emancipation Proclamation succeeded in pitting British public opinion against the slave holding south, and prevented the British from supporting the South with arms, munitions, material and naval support.

[Georgia Girl 2]

We will be flying the Stars and Bars 100 years from now.

[rockrr]

You do realize that the confederate constitution PREVENTED the elimination of slavery? Section 9, Article 4 of the confederate constitution sanctified the Peculiar Institution in perpetuity.

Slavery was going nowhere (literally).

[LeoWindhorse]

Deo Vindice

[LeoWindhorse]

and the CBF ....

[Sivad]

Sure happy to know that you appreciate my sentiments.
........geesh.

[Rabble]

"Ratifying the 13th was a condition for readmission to the union."

How can a state not in the union vote to ratify an amendment to that union ??

[jamaksin]

"The Mind of the South" by W. J. Cash (died in 1941).

The "South" is an attitude and not a region.