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To: rusty schucklefurd
Re: “The choice is between perishing...which mean to be utterly destroyed...OR to have eternal life. Eternal life is ONLY possible through Jesus.” The spirit of man will live in eternity - either in Heaven or in Hell. Jesus says in Matthew 25:

Not to belabor this point but it is important. What Jesus taught about the afterlife MUST match with the only scriptures he knew...the books of the old testament. So when Jesus said:

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

He meant it. Perish, in the greek, apollumi, means "to destroy, to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to, ruin, render useless, to kill, to declare that one must be put to death."

The only way it does not mean this is to change the meaning and turn it into a metaphor.

This though matches up with other scripture...such the book of malachi:

Mal 4:1 "For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," Says the LORD of hosts, "That will leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With healing in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
Mal 4:3 You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this," Says the LORD of hosts.

Sounds a lot like being totally destroyed in the lake of fire.

And again ETERNAL LIFE is only through Christ. We are MORTAL without Christ. That means it's impossible for us be immortal in any way, shape or form. Otherwise it makes the death of Christ irrelevant.

Also consider this...only the most sickest of us would for one moment think that torturing someone for an extended amount of time is MORE merciful then a quick death. Yet we would believe that about God? Thank God scripture doesn't agree. For example:

2Co 1:9 Yes, we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead,
2Co 1:10 who delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver us; in whom we trust that He will still deliver us,

Paul very clearly says we have death sentence...NOT a torture sentence.

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."

Paul knew he was mortal and that his end was death.

1Co 15:55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING? O HADES, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY?"
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The victory over death.

Jesus again:

Joh 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Not passed from threat of torture. But from death to life. Eternal life is a reward for believers.

Joh 8:51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now these are by no means the entirety of verses that support the argument i'm making. And it's certain I can show many more scriptures that plainly and clearly show that there are two alternatives in the afterlife: death for sinners and eternal life for believers in Christ. With that in mind the examples you gave can easily be put into the same context...which I will do if you wish. But this is pretty long already.

17 posted on 04/04/2015 7:04:40 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

I never said the scriptures teach eternal torture - they teach conscious, eternal separation from God in Hell. Jesus clearly taught that it is better to enter “life” (Heaven) with one eye or one hand than to enter Hell. Hell is a place. I don’t know exactly what Hell is except from some descriptions/metaphors - but, I do it is not somewhere I want to go. Jesus took our punishment so that we wouldn’t have to.

I guess we are just ogling to disagree.


20 posted on 04/04/2015 12:26:13 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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