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To: SoConPubbie

Why I’m even taking the time here... This is not hard, it’s actually easy, so maybe even you can get it. . You’re right, meanings of words change. But what is more important? That when we actually KNOW what was meant when a contract was created that we stay true to that spirit? Or, that when words change we go back and CHANGE the actual intended meaning? Does that make sense to you? Now, natural-born actually DID mean something in the late 1800’s. It’s meaning was known to everyone who created the social compact called the Constitution. If we now go back, and make it mean something different, then the contract is null and void. It makes NO SENSE to change the MEANING of a contract. If you don’t like the Constitution it was designed to be changed in a multiple of different ways.

Now, if you don’t agree with the above, then there is no need to go any further. Why? Because there is no sensible perch on which logic and reason can land in your mind. So why should I have a discussion with you? But, if you agree that the meaning used by the framers was important, then all that we need to do is discover what the word meant at that time (and still means today by the way).

Bouvier’s and Black’s law dictionaries are the tools that lawyers use to discover the actual meanings of legal terms. Regardless of the slow progression of word meanings changing, they cannot therefore be used contemporaneously to rewrite history, meaning, law, contracts, and even constitutions.

Natural-born was the term used, for a REASON. Why? Why not just say, for instance.. CITIZEN? It was because the founders did NOT want just a citizen to be president. They wanted someone who had NATURAL allegiance to a country. Therefore they wanted someone who not only was a citizen, but he or she would also be born of citizens, and born in the country he or she would call home. These circumstances imbue natural citizenship that cannot be modified by statutes. And these circumstances ALSO create a person with natural affinity for the country of their birth.

The proof that this is important IS Obama, regardless of where he was actually born. His affinity is questionable because of his actions. And it is clear that his actions are the result of the things WE KNOW. Father, NOT an American. NOT born in the busom of the country. Raised in Indonesia. These we KNOW for sure. And these are enough to divide loyalties.

So... I love Ted Cruz. But Ted Cruz cannot legally be President. Why we would want to push him forward is mindlessly foolish considering the possibilities.


39 posted on 01/20/2015 6:11:03 AM PST by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can STILL go straight to hell.)
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To: HMS Surprise
If you don’t like the Constitution it was designed to be changed in a multiple of different ways.

Actually, since the Constitution, it's Amendments, US Laws, or SCOTUS rules do not contain anything supporting your definition, YOU, and THOSE OF YOU who believe this definition of 'Natural Born' is the correct one, need to go through the process of changing it, because as of now, it does not mean what you want it to, at least constitutionally speaking.
48 posted on 01/20/2015 10:43:02 AM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: HMS Surprise
So... I love Ted Cruz. But Ted Cruz cannot legally be President. Why we would want to push him forward is mindlessly foolish considering the possibilities.

You could not be more wrong!

Your definition, Black's Dictionary, the so-called general meaning of the phrase at the signing of the constitution, and your desire for it to mean that not withstanding. The only things that establish the legal meaning of the phrase "Natural Born", and therefore, it's application to Senator Ted Cruz and his eligibility to be President, is contained in the Constitution, it's Amendments, US Law, and SCOTUS Rulings on the Constitution and US Law. Everything else is irrelevant.

Now, that could change if a case was brought before the SCOTUS concerning this and they ruled, that yes, your supporting evidence should be taken into consideration and should be the LEGAL definition. Or, the US Congress could pass a law, have it signed by the President, and then Presto-Magic, your definition of 'Natural Born' would then become the LEGAL definition.

But, until either of those two things occur, your definition IS NOT THE LEGAL DEFINITION.

It is simply your opinion that is should be the legal definition.
50 posted on 01/20/2015 10:48:14 AM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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