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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thanks for bringing Christians closer together. This gave you the perfect opportunity to get a jab in at non catholic christians. good job. /s

Since you started this line of posting, personally I believe if you want to draw parallels or analogies between other events, I’d say the Inquisition matches Islam far better than the Reformation. We could toss in the Council of Trent (ie “anathema-fest”) - which has never been rescinded -to solidify the viewpoint as well.


22 posted on 01/14/2015 9:50:02 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
I did not say anything that could be taken as a slam on any of today's Christians, but made a valid historical comparison referencing the 16th-17th century religious conflicts that tore Europe apart for over 100 years,and the tumult of religious conflict the whole world faces now.

Was it factually incorrect? Then correct it.

Was it a false argument? Then refute it.

Did it insult any living Christian individual or institution? It did not.

Was it unhelpful? I say it is helpful because it may explain why in the midst of a red-hot crucible of a religious reformation, the combatants' passions may not be quelled by argument. Calculations of benefit in this life, may not sway those whose eyes are fixed on the life to come.

You would do better to engage the topic --- which we can both do in a civil and charitable manner --- rather than ban the topic.

I show my respect for you by engaging your points regarding the Inquisition and the Council of Trent:

Your view of the Inquisition has perhaps been shaped by a flawed historiography which envisions it as an unmitigated crime and disgrace. It was not. It saved the lives of many unjustly accused persons from the fury of their nobility or of their own neighbors by acquitting them fairly. There were horrible abuses (e.g. torture is always a horrible abuse, then as now) but as a whole, it was neither a matter of unstained honor nor of unmitigated crime.

Did you know, by the way, that twice as many Catholics were killed by leftwing atheists during the 3-year Spanish Civil War than “heretics” were killed during the the 350 year Spanish Inquisition?

And that Muslims killed the same number of people in one morning, on 9/11?

Church inquisitions had authority only to investigate (which is what "inquisition" means -- it's an inquest) and only over church members. They had and claimed no authority over the unbaptized.

(This applies to Church inquisitions, not State inquisitions.)

Moreover, the Inquisition initiated and developed the practice of Procedural Due Process, making it far fairer than the secular courts of the time. An accused person would ordinarily fare better at the hands of the Inquisition than the only two other alternatives: mob justice, or prosecution by a prince or noble who was interested in seizing their estates. People even sought to have their cases transferred from civil to ecclesiastical courts, in order to benefit from the signficantly improved chance of being acquitted.

Even consider the worst cases only: 20th century researchers, like Edward Peters, Henry Kamen, and Thomas F. Madden (LINKS), with access to court records, transcripts of testimonies,and other archival material (much of which only was opened to the public after the death of Francisco Franco in 1975) discovered that the Spanish Inquisition applied torture in only 2 percent of its cases. Each instance of torture was limited to a maximum of 15 minutes. In only 1 percent of the cases was torture applied twice and never for a third time.

Only 1% of their cases resulted in capital punishment, a rate far, far below that of contemporaneous non-Church courts.And after you'd been tried and acquitted by a Church court, you couldn't be re-tried by secular authorities or attacked by your neighbors. The Inquisition thus saved thousands of lives, and --- where it was most firmly established --- stopped fanaticism in its tracks.

A little more Inquisition historical background here (Link) with many sources cited for further research, if you're interested in the facts.

As for the Council of Trent. There is no wrong or aggression involved in defining doctrines and declaring anathemas. We do it every day in our secular manner here at Free Republic! No one's pocket was ever picked by a declaration of dogma, and nobody ever broke their kneecap on the anathematization of an error. The purpose of any church council ---including yours, if your church has ever had a council, synod, convention or annual conference -- is normally to separate truth from error.

Corrections? Rebuttals? Different perspective? I await your response. I love learning new things. I'm all ears.

34 posted on 01/14/2015 11:59:08 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (B.A.S.I.C. = "Brothers and Sisters in Christ")
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