[Jim Noble]

The Moslem Jihad against Christian Byzantium lasted for 800 years from 634 to 1453 AD

And the Moslems did not even have to go through a painful transformation.

[allendale]

Jim think of it this way. If the 1965 Green Bay Packers .were to plat the 2014 Seattle Seahawks, they would lose badly. If your culture is incompatible with modernity, it withers into a violent backwater incapable of real progress or sustainablity