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Yes, I guess we’re not looking for a complete off-grid lifestyle, but one that can converted to that if necessary. We are too old to do the rigorous work involved in a self-sustaining life. So I figure some assets could be used to barter for some younger, stronger labor.

Plus, if nothing happens in our lifetime, then we won’t be completely broke. Those with houses did fairly well during the Weimar’s hyperinflation run. I’m trying to cover all bases that could occur with financial collapse. I just know the current trend is unsustainable.

If you don’t think it will happen in your lifetime, why do you want to go off-grid? Something you’d enjoy?

I hear ya on the pension. I now feel we were strangely lucky not to have jobs with one. It’s a sort of prison, limiting one’s ability to move or change careers. And is too lucrative to give up on something risky. But that’s again exchanging freedom for security. Sadly, my son had MANY ineffective teachers that stayed - because of the pension. I’m convinced states that don’t offer a pension have a much better education system - because those that can’t teach can go find something they are good at. I have no data or research to back that up though ;) Just reflecting on the two states we’ve lived in and dealt with schools.

Very interesting concept of businesses going Galt. I never considered that. I figured they were too much in bed with Big Government. But they would evolve when the economy changes too.

We don’t have a Galt Gulch, but more of a Harden’s Hollow. No stream involved. We’ll create it ourselves since I can’t find that elusive Gulch.

“If you don’t think it will happen in your lifetime, why do you want to go off-grid? Something you’d enjoy?”

My grandfather was a man of the land and I remember him reading Grit magazine articles to me, and he semi-lived the self-sufficiency life style.

In the late 70s I bought the original 4 Foxfire books, and I was hooked on all manner of that lifestyle. The entire self-sufficiency idea fits me to a tee as I am fiercely independent...possibly to my own detriment I imagine.

I remember in the early 80s trying to talk to some folks at work about a Trombe Wall...they thought I was nuts.

Along the way I realized we send our mil to places, the local folks change their ways to appease us, they take everything we have to offer, and then we leave. And they return to the exact behavior that brought us there. I experienced that a few times.

Then there’s the tax issue. I’m not married, my kids are grown and gone, I have no bills not even a mortgage, and I have a good job. Many times my fed income tax is about the same as a retirement I’m collecting. Ironically, some guys with kids/wife I work with that make about the same as I do, but aren’t collecting a retirement income, actually take home (gross) more than I do.

I’m all for a flat (consumption) tax.

So I’m to the point now where I just want to be self-sufficient and get out from under the government meddling in my life in any way shape or form. I don’t want their power at my house, their gas meter, water meter, bldg. inspectors, etc. I’m perfectly capable at taking care of myself.

But to be clear the allure of self-sufficiency is greater than getting out from under the gov...always has been.

After you explained it and thinking about it, I think you’re smart to diversify (rentals, business, etc.).

Age and health are a consideration. I’m in great health but who knows how long that will last.

Another consideration is hobbies, etc. If I went way out in the boonies I wouldn’t be able to participate. But getting far enough out so as not to deal with bldg. codes, inspectors, etc. was a pain.

OBAMA IS COLLUDING W/ THIRD WORLD AGENTS ADVOCATIMG THE OVERTHROW OF THE US GOVERNMENT included in the $trillion dollar funding bill is an extortion payment to Central America-----they get $266 million tax dollars to "help them (GAG) assist child victims of violence." (more on this below)

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REALITY CHECK---WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO HUMANITARIAN US FOREIGN AID The crooked Guatemalan president absconded to the US w/ the country's foreign aid money.

Former Guatemala Prez used US banks to launder millions (Portillo was elected to (ahem) "redistribute" the nation's wealth)

READ ON An ex-president of the Central American country of Guatemala faced charges in New York that he used US banks to launder millions looted from his impoverished nation. Alfonso Portillo took office in 2000 pledging to (ahem) redistribute Guatemala’s wealth.

Portillo, 61, allegedly ran scams to drain the impoverished country's coffers. The feds say Portillo embezzled about $2.5M provided by the Taiwanese embassy....$1.5 million was earmarked for “Libraries for Peace”....books for school kids.

Portillo personally endorsed three, $500,000 checks issued against an account at the Intl Bank of China in Manhattan, then deposited the cash in the Miami bank account of a Guatemalan bank controlled by “a close associate and political supporter”.

The embezzled money was funneled to bank accounts in Paris in the names of Portillo’s ex-wife and daughter.

Portillo swindled nearly $4M defense funds ...and plundered the national bank run by his alleged co-conspirator through overdrafts financed by public reserves.

Stolen foreign aid money paid for expensive watches and cars, for Portillo and his associates, according to the indictment. (NY POST 5/28/13)

SOURCE http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/former_guatemala_program_used_from_bJ7Akdr3YK85070OumW5FN

(more below)

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REMINDER: $266 million of our tax dollars are going to Central America federales to "Help them (GAG) assist child victims of violence."

Guatemalan President Otto Perez warns the US will be
inundated w/ even more contagious illegals if billions
of US tax dollars are not handed over.

GUATEMALA CITY (Reuters) - The United States should provide billions of dollars to help Central American nations curb the flow of illegal migrants, Guatemalan President Otto Perez said, and his government warns the problem will get worse if Washington fails to help.

Fleeing violence, trying to reach relatives already in the United States or seeking jobs, record numbers of child migrants from Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador have been stopped at the southern U.S. border this year, causing widespread alarm. Last month, the three countries pitched Washington an ambitious development plan to confront the issue.

They want to pump about $10 billion into the region to create jobs and lift living standards, with the bulk of funding coming from the United States, Perez told Reuters. He hopes the plan could come up with about $2 billion a year from 2015 to 2019, a sum he equated to roughly 10 percent of annual U.S. spending on border security and immigration enforcement.

"Now we understand it's not simply a question of the United States saying: 'Right, here's $2 billion a year for five years' for example - the governments of the three countries have to play their part too," the conservative Perez, who took power in early 2012, said in an interview late on Monday.

The US aid package would boost infrastructure and provide more jobs in all three countries, especially in areas that send large numbers of migrants to the United States, he added.

The three Central American governments are urging the United States to shoulder the lion's share of the costs, arguing that U.S. demand for illegal narcotics has fueled violence among drug gangs across much of the impoverished region.

"The United States has to support this, it has no other option," Guatemala's foreign minister, Carlos Morales, told Reuters. "If they don't support it, the crisis will kick off again, you can count on it."

Perez said he hoped the United States would put up about 60 percent of funding. "But we'll have to discuss it calmly and see what each individual country can do, and what can be achieved by common consent."

During meetings in New York in September, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told Central American officials he hoped Congress could approve about $300 million in funding, Morales said, noting the sum was "nothing" given the scale of the problem.

Central American leaders are due to meet Vice President Joe Biden on Nov. 12 in Washington to sound out U.S. support for their plan, Morales added.--SNIP--

(Reporting by Dave Graham; Editing by Kieran Murray) http://news.yahoo.com/u-stump-billions-curb-central-america-migration-perez-171130651.html