If Eric Garner Were White (His death would be a Tea Party crusade.)

The Atlantic ^ | DEC 4 2014, 10:08 AM ET | PETER BEINART

[SAJ]

'Loosies' were made illegal in 1992, Cuomo was governor, Dinkins was mayor. NYers got what they voted for...good and hard.

More, bigger goobermint, yeah baby!

[sergeantdave]

The 50 IQ NYC liberal apes, through the ballot box, have made it known that they want to be ruled by fascist thugs. So they should not be surprised that the designated Gestapo, cops, kill a few citizens for engaging in forbidden actions that displease their masters.

If NYC apes don’t want to see themselves murdered for the glory of the almighty state, they should consider voting differently. Or if they want quicker change, storm the fascist castles and sack those who you voted into power.

[Neidermeyer]

I haven’t seen it said anywhere that the cigarettes were untaxed , only that they were being sold in quantity “each” and not by the pack.. of course the tax is by the “pack” ... I see this (until we have other evidence) as exactly the same as your local bar selling you a drink instead of a bottle.

[granada]

yes, a black NYPD sergeant was on the scene supervising the action.

[Karl Spooner]

I must have missed it, but I didn’t see any evidence that he was selling cigarettes at the time.

[granada]

What progressives need is racial controversy, they don’t mind the fact.

[Jabba the Nutt]

As I recall, the argument was that Bundy did have the grazing rights to the land and that the Feds violated those rights by then imposing illegal fees. The Bundy Family had those rights for decades and decades and made many improvements to the land.

That's my memory of the case.

[Jabba the Nutt]

Beinart may have a point in that the right was slow to pick up on the Eric Garner story. This can be explained by the people pushing the story have a history of lies, fraud, deceit and pushing the leftwing agenda. The story has to be investigated before jumping on board.

The Left is using this case to push for central Federal control over all police in America everywhere (in steps). But that's the agenda. The Mike Brown/Ferguson case is being used to get rid of the Grand Jury system and turn more power over the to the Feds.

The Trayvon Martin case was and is being used to eliminate self-defense as legal and turn more power over to the Feds.

So, Mr. Beinart, you can understand our reluctance to jump on board another one of the Left's campaigns, correct? And it's nothing about race, Mr Moron.

[driftless2]

This is a joke. If Garner were white, the story would never have gotten (I was tempted to say garnered) national attention. Like the white kid killed by the black cop in Utah...who knows the name of either the kid or the cop?

[dfwgator]

Conservatives don’t defend law breakers, like Garner, Black or White.

[driftless2]

"there are (a) LOT of white Garners"

There are? Give me some info on that please.

[Sherman Logan]

The Bundys did own grazing rights to the land, as long as they paid the fees. As I understand it, they paid fees from the 50s thru the 90s, at which point Bundy stopped paying. I believe he thought he had acquired vested rights to graze his cattle for free on land he did not and never had owned.

Of course, if he owned it, he would have had to pay taxes on it, etc. Not to mention tie up a spectacular amount of capital even assuming a very low price per acre. The amount of land affected is somewhere between 150,000 and 500,000 acres. At $250/acre that’s $37,500,000 to $75,000,000.

Courts have found that the Bundys started running cattle in the area in the mid-50s, not in the 19th century.

As I said, this is not to say that BLM policies were right and proper, just that Bundy never had much of a leg to stand on from a legal POV. Just because someone is in conflict with the federal government doesn’t mean they’re in the right.

[stephenjohnbanker]

Corzine has a way of making money disappear in both the private and public sector.

[Stepan12]

I heard differently, but now I suspect you’re right. I’ll look it up.

[lepton]

I believe he thought he had acquired vested rights to graze his cattle for free on land he did not and never had owned.

---

As I recall, what happened is that the payees were changed by fiat to BLM in a way that unillaterally changed his rights, and that the BLM insisted he sign away a host of rights, as well as to reduce his grazing levels to a low level of use under which he would forfeit his water rights for non-use. He offered to continue paying the fees to the entities he had been, which was not accepted.

He then was taken to court, and had the wrong kind of lawyer and lost his case...which is where his fairly strong previous position became dubious - and all following cases could point to that original ruling.

[Sherman Logan]

You are probably right. I don’t claim to be expert on the case. I do find it interesting that he appears to be pretty much the only rancher in the country that had this level of conflict with the BLM.

The government infringing on private property rights is wrong.

But then so are private individuals using public property as if it were their own.

[ZULU]

Do a search under police in Freerepublic.

There are constant and numerous accounts of militarized NAZI like thugs in blue terrorizing and killing Americans of all races, raiding the wrong house, killing dogs and innocent people, screwing around with evidence (ever hear the term “drop gun”?), and acquiring advanced military hardware.

Like the blonde white kid who was blown away by cops in Michigan or Wisconsin with his hands cuffed behind his back.

The cops in America today are NOT your Daddy’s police force.
They view themselves as a paramilitary army of occupation and look at the world through a “them” versus “us” mentality with the “them” being non-cops.

Three of these thugs killed a guy - Garner - for a ticketable offense. It was captured on film. The Prosecutor collaborated with the Police Malevolent Association to get his killer released.

Cops scare me today and I am old enough to remember when they were viewed as my friends and protectors. AND I am an old conservative white guy with no criminal record who lives in the suburbs.

[Jabba the Nutt]

The land ain't worth no $250 an acre. One can barely make money using the land for free grazing. If you think that land is worth $250 an acre in taxes, year after year, why don't you buy it?

So, what you're telling me is that the Feds (BLM) didn't do anything wrong at all. That Bundy unilaterally changed things on his own by not paying. The the control-freak, environmental wackos at BLM and EPA, etc, were just minding their own business and out of the blue, Bundy goes rogue? Is that what you're saying?

Because I don't believe it.

[Sherman Logan]

I didn’t claim the land was worth $250. That’s simply a rough approximation of ranch land price I got off a website for Texas ranch real estate.

Also did not say the land would be taxed at $250. That is, or maybe not, simply an approximation of sale price.

Believe what you like. Out of the many thousands of ranchers in the West, Bundy seems to be the only one that got this crosswise with the BLM.

Bundy may or may not be morally right. I’ve simply pointed out that he doesn’t have any legal right to this land. It “belonged” to Mexico and was transferred to the United States by the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo. It’s belonged to the United States ever since, and can be managed or disposed of at the whim of Congress.

Which they did when they set up the BLM and its predecessors.

I make no claim that the present policies are wise, simply that they’re perfectly legal.

[Jabba the Nutt]

Sherman, you live in fantasy land. And FYI, Bundy was in Nevada, not Texas.

"Believe what you like. Out of the many thousands of ranchers in the West, Bundy seems to be the only one that got this crosswise with the BLM."

Thousand or tens of thousands of ranchers have been driven off the land. That one finally said "no mas" shouldn't be surprising, it should be expected.

"Bundy may or may not be morally right. I’ve simply pointed out that he doesn’t have any legal right to this land. It “belonged” to Mexico and was transferred to the United States by the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo. It’s belonged to the United States ever since, and can be managed or disposed of at the whim of Congress."

By Congress, not the BLM pushing illegal regulations.

Point two, when these western States entered the Union, the Federal Government owned lands were to be turned over to the States. The Federal Government decided they liked to be a landowner. The lands should be immediately turned over to the States.

Sherman, do you work for the Federal Government or in a business in business with the Federal Government? You seem far too comfortable with the all powerful Federal Government. They've declared war on the American People. I hope they can be turned back peacefully. At some point, if the trends don't change, we'll going to have a second Civil War. How would the Federal Government occupy 95% of the country?