Natural Gas Vehicles See Steady Growth

Oil Price ^ | 14 November 2014 | Editorial Dept

[kidd]

CNG is great.

Cheaper.
Almost the same range as octane.
Can fill up at home. Wake up every morning with a full tank.
Fewer engine problems.

Problems:
Except New York state, CNG stations are rare.
If you run out of CNG, you have to have your car towed

[thackney]

Except New York state, CNG stations are rare.

I think they are more common in Oklahoma or California, compared to NY.

It isn't a great choice for all location. But it is in some locations, for some people.

The opened up a station very close to me, Southwest Houston. We drive by it a couple times a week. I'm going to look hard at a dual-fuel set-up for the next truck.

[servantboy777]

>>I don’t think you want a fuel tank that needs to be maintained at -260°F<<

Ok...I’ll bite. lol Are you saying that the tank on your vehicle must be cooled to -260F? If so, never heard that before.

[thackney]

For LNG, not CNG.

They use a heavily insulated tank. You get cooling from auto-refrigeration as the vapor boils off from the liquid while you are using fuel. If you use it fast enough, you maintain the cold temperature of the fuel that was put in the tank.

You only use the vapor, not the liquid. LNG will not even ignite. You have to vaporize it, then mix with air down to a 5~15% concentration.

When you stop consuming sufficient fuel, the fuel begins to warm. As the vapor boils off, pressure in the tank will rise. Tanks are rated to contain ~5 days of boil off before they need to start venting, based upon reasonable temperature.

LNG is fine for Fleet Service vehicles that run a lot of miles and come back to a service center. You can carry more LNG energy than the same space of CNG tanks. Locomotives are starting to use LNG as well as ships.

But I think it is a bad choice for the individual. CNG makes more sense to me.

[servantboy777]

I’ve always said that I’d do a natural gas pickup if and when they became available and the infrastructure was put into place.

Did a lil research...It’s just not ready

[thackney]

I would not want to depend on CNG only myself.

But for $315, Ford will add to a F250/350

The CNG/LPG Fuel Capable Engine Package for Super Duty includes:
• Hardened Engine Intake Valves and Valve Seats
• Bi-fuel Manifold

I expect to get ready for a dual fuel that way. Pricing for the CNG add on will come down with more competition.

[PapaBear3625]

I think the popularity of these vehicles will remain low until there are natural gas fueling stations all over. Who wants to own a vehicle that they can't take on a long trip for fear of not being able to get fuel.

LNG makes the most sense for trucks and other high-usage commercial vehicles.

The truck conversion kits enable trucks to be "dual fuel", diesel/LNG. The truck would run on LNG (the engine needs a little bit of diesel mixed in for proper operation) until the LNG tank runs dry, then continue on diesel. If long-haul trucks are made LNG-ready first, then you would just need LNG pumps at truck stops every few hundred miles on major interstates.

[Erik Latranyi]

I just looked at the chart and the closest one to my house is about 40 miles away; I wouldn't expect to have one on every corner, but I would at least like the option of being able to fill up when I'm out running errands and not have to plan a special trip to do it.

Give it time.

That chart is probably out of date, given how fast CNG stations are being installed.

Secondly, this is how things work in a free market, with no taxpayer dollars to support installing these everywhere, like solar panels or windmills.

The more stations, the more vehicles. The more vehicles, the more stations. It will grow organically.

[Erik Latranyi]

Problems: Except New York state, CNG stations are rare. If you run out of CNG, you have to have your car towed

Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ohio (Marcellus/Utica Shale Play) are installing CNG fueling stations rapidly...without gov't money.

The oil & gas industry is converting to CNG trucks and is helping to drive the demand for the product they extract.

It is a wonderful example of capitalism and free markets at work.

[wagglebee]

And that’s what I’m/we’re saying - if the efficiency of the two engines is the same, you can take the ratios of BTUs per dollar and translate that directly to ratios of miles per dollar.

I think the bottom line for me to switch would be cost. In the simplest sense, what would it cost me to drive 500 miles with CNG vs. gasoline.

[MrB]

At this point, it’s not worth it.
There’s the cost of conversion and the inconvenience of supply.

[thackney]

41407 BTU per dollar at $2.70 (gasoline)
35730 BTU per dollar at $2 (LNG)

At those prices, you should get ~16% more miles per dollar on gasoline.

At $3.50 a gallon of gasoline, you should get 12% more on LNG. But LNG is not a good fuel choice for an individual; also it tends to be more expensive than CNG.

Near me, I can by the same amount of CNG (same energy, same miles) at $2.05 versus $2.69 for gasoline at the same service station. I should get 30% more miles for the same dollar on CNG over gasoline.