Why Religious Freedom Includes the Freedom to Give to the Poor

Christian Headlines ^ | November 12, 2014 | Eric Metaxas

[Amity]

Agreed. Well, my kids do go to homeless shelters, but they're teenagers, and they go periodically with older church members to feed the homeless.

The other thing is that the Bible does not actually endorse the church giving to anybody for anything. As George Grant, Marvin Olasky, and others have pointed out, Paul didn't order "If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat" (2 Thessalonians 3:10b) in a vacuum. While Christians have an obligation to the helpless, generally symbolized by the widow and orphan (who had few options in ancient Israel) we also have an obligation to encourage the able-bodied to work.

Even in the Old Testament, many of the supports for the poor were not simple handouts; gleaning could keep you alive, but it was hard work. Biblical charity was also grounded in family and community; while there were supports for the isolated, the family was expected to step in first.

I drifted. Point is, the Bible does have guidelines and suggested structure to charitable activity, and doesn't support taking over a park to hand out food to any and all. While God's law supersedes local law, IMHO, that doesn't seem to apply here.

[P-Marlowe]

Do Rastafarians have a constitutional right to smoke marijuana?

They do in Colorado

Do the FLDS have a constitutional right to practice polygamy?

If Homosexual marriage is legal, then there is no logical reason why polygamy should not be legal

Do Moloch worshipers have a right to perform human sacrifice?

As a nation we have sacrificed over 50 million children to Moloch under the auspices of the Roe v Wade decision. (The answer to Libertarian prayers, BTW)

[stockpirate]

These are the very same liberals that vote this trash in to office.

[xzins]

In my post, I make a distinction between being friendly with otherwise law -abiding aliens while they are in your midst and adhering to a reasonable law that says they should be deported. Violent or thieving aliens should be treated in the same manner as all violent or thieving criminals.

So, I have no objection to the law of deportation. If you don’t understand that, then you haven’t understood what I’m saying.

It is contrary to the gospel, however, to be mean-spirited with otherwise peaceful aliens while they are in your midst. That is straight from the bible. Aliens are to be treated respectfully. That does not mean that they should be permitted to continue in this land.

Exodus 23:9 “Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt.

Jeremiah 22:3 This is what the LORD says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth.

Hebrews 13:2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it.

[xzins]

Do Rastafarians have a constitutional right to smoke marijuana? Do the FLDS have a constitutional right to practice polygamy? Do Moloch worshipers have a right to perform human sacrifice?

First, I will forego pointing out in depth that you are acknowledging the supremacy of Christianity over other religions. Sufficient that it just be pointed out.

Next, can a moral people take life without due process of law and only when a capital offense has been committed? Of course not, so we see the law of life in conflict with the law of free exercise. I'm not real sure why Rastafarians should be denied marijuana in their worship, except if it ever intersects with the law of life. I can think of all kinds of social and behavioral ills that come from a polygamous society, and I see the demise of our nuclear family based society as fraught with danger and subjugation for future generations, but I do not believe that religion police are better than polygamy. Evidence is now showing us that a homosexual culture apparently leads directly to religion police, and I can see how a polygamous culture might as well, but I'll have to think on it a bit more. My reading about the early Mormons is that they were very controlled by their theocracy, and that suggests polygamy in some way forcing the rise of religion police.

[DoughtyOne]

Over the years I have faced just about every excuse for being sympathetic to the plight of illegal aliens.  I've been called a racist, xenophobic, uncaring, inhuman, mean spirited, angry...  you name it.  So when a person comes up with a new angle, I just laugh and realize that people will always drag out Bible verses to justify their unjustifiable actions.  It's part of Satan's plan.  Beat righteousness with God's own word.

Is it good for the United States a Christian nation, the last refuge of decent men on planet earth that can make a global difference, to be occupied and conquered?  My answer to that question is no.  And so it is, I oppose there being a presence equal to 10 to 15% of U. S. Citizens here in the U. S. of foreign nationals.  I oppose it because it's against the law, they are voting, and our nation cannot survive this.  If this nation falls, Christianity on this planet will go from mainstream to almost non-existent.

Those that take of the U. S. will not be Bible thumping Christians.  They will be atheistic communists, Marxists, or followers of Islam.

And to help facilitate this by quoting Bible verses?  You should be ashamed.. 

In my post, I make a distinction between being friendly with otherwise law -abiding aliens while they are in your midst and adhering to a reasonable law that says they should be deported. Violent or thieving aliens should be treated in the same manner as all violent or thieving criminals.

Every illegal alien here is a thief.  They have come to our nation against our laws.  At the very least they are stealing a birthright from us.  There is no such thing as an innocent illegal alien.  They are all abusing our system by being here.  What part of this do you not quite grasp?  Living two or more families in a single family dwelling destroys the individual home, lowers the property values, and increases crime in the area.  Their willingness to work for slave labor wages displaces our middle class workers.  It is destructive to the cornerstone of our nation.  It puts additional stress on families in the U. S.   It causes stress on our hospitals and schools.  It causes increased stress on our infrastructure, that cannot be supported by people who make 25 to 50% of what the middle-class workers did, and quite often don't even report that.  So the normal tax stream is also thwarted.  Roads, libraries, public services all take a hit.  Then we wonder why.

What you do by harboring illegal aliens, is facilitate them making connections here, get a foot-hold here, and remain in our nation.  And you do this quoting God's word in the process.

So, I have no objection to the law of deportation. If you don’t understand that, then you haven’t understood what I’m saying.

I'm not misunderstanding anything.  You are by your own admission harboring illegal aliens, feeding them, and facilitating their smooth transition into permanent illegal alien residents in the United States.  

It is contrary to the gospel, however, to be mean-spirited with otherwise peaceful aliens while they are in your midst. That is straight from the bible. Aliens are to be treated respectfully. That does not mean that they should be permitted to continue in this land.

It is not contrary to the Bible to develop sound laws that protect your nation and your citizens from the blight of massive numbers of foreign nationals that are here illegally.

This is destabilizing our society.  Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest you should commit national suicide to facilitate the crimes of foreign nationals.  And anyone here illegally, is a criminal.  They have broken the law by just being here.

Exodus 23:9 “Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt.

We're talking the global environment in excess of 1,000 year before Christ here.  The global population was extremely sparse compared to what it is today.  Borders were not restricted to travel.  Joseph and Mary a thousand years later would travel freely freely to Egypt and remained there.  There weren't laws against it.  Many of the people of those days were nomads.  They moved freely.  Transition forward from the story of Exodus three thousand years to modern day, and you think that Bible verse addressed precisely our situation today.  It doesn't.

Today we have borders that are clearly defined.  They are supposed to be enforced.  The sheer numbers of illegals in the United States puts to rest the idea these are casual travelers.  We have from 25 to 40 million illegal immigrants inside the United States, and they are disrupting in mass across our nation.  They are not simple visitors from abroad.  Those people are here on passports, LEGALLY.  Those are the aliens that should be treated with respect, and we do.

The law breakers do not qualify for respect or kit glove treatment.  You are facilitating a crime.  

Jeremiah 22:3 This is what the LORD says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

Once again, the alien spoken of here is an alien living by the rules of that time.  They are essentially legal aliens.  The equivalent today would be an alien here on a passport.  Illegal aliens are not here legally.  They have no rights here.  They should not be helped to break our laws.

Do you have any concept of what good Citizenship is?  As a Christian are we to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's?  It's a phrase meaning that even under occupation, you respect the rule of law in place.  There are things we should not render unto Caesar, but those are related to our religious beliefs.  And no, we can't support murder in the name of religion, so there are acknowledged limits to what we can claim is protected under the name of Christianity.  Housing and feeding illegal immigrants is against the law.  Those laws were established to protect the sovereignty of our nation.  That is a reasoned goal, that benefits Christians more than any other people.  If our nation is conquered, is Christianity going to remain viable in the public arena?

What takes the place of our present Constitution and rule of law, if we are conquered?  We see it already by the softening of the laws of our nation, which now allow people to get away with things that are very destructive.  If our government falls, will the next iteration be better?  Most of us think our nation was drafted by very wise men.  The next draft may very well be a bunch of Leftists that make today's Leftists look tame.  The will be doing it in the presence of anarchy.  Good luck with that.

Do you think this is God's plan for us?  I do not!  

Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth.

This addresses the perception of Christians that they are God's people, living in a sinful world.  It is not addressing an alien from another nation or region.  We are set apart, living Christian lives, in effect God's people and not people of this sinful world.

It's a spiritual context.  It is not addressing a physical location, but more a mental state of being.  

Hebrews 13:2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it.

So it's your interpretation that Angels traveling legally during Biblical times, were actually illegal alien parasites eating away at the fabric of the nations of the day.

You have some interesting observations, interpretations, and beliefs there.

[stephenjohnbanker]

John 10.1-10

10“Very truly, I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold by the gate but climbs in by another way is a thief and a bandit. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.

[stephenjohnbanker]

” Every illegal alien here is a thief. They have come to our nation against our laws. At the very least they are stealing a birthright from us. There is no such thing as an innocent illegal alien. They are all abusing our system by being here”

John agrees

[DoughtyOne]

Wow. Nice one...

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for that also...

[stephenjohnbanker]

It just PROVES your point. God knows what a thief is.

[DoughtyOne]

The wording was particularly appropriate also.

[stephenjohnbanker]

I thought so....

[xzins]

Surprisingly, you haven’t understood a single thing I wrote.

But, whatever...I was trying to be clear. It’s possible that I am a very poor writer.

[DoughtyOne]

Xzins, I am not very diplomatic at times. I see things a certain way, and I try to be honest about what I see.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that I am right.

If my words don’t make sense to others, I encourage them to maintain their original views or perhaps morph them a bit.

If after some thought my thoughts do make sense, then it’s up to them if they want to adopt part or all of them.

You and I probably agree about a lot of things here. I recognize that.

I don’t think you are a poor writer. I believe I understood what you were trying to express.

I think you’re doing what you think is right, but we all do that at times and are wrong, me included.

You take care.

[DoughtyOne]

BTW, I have meant no disrespect based on your tag-line, which I just noticed.