Sen. Coburn: Let’s change Constitution

The Hill ^ | 9/3/2014 | Alexander Bolton

[PapaNew]

This effort is already underway with a well-conceived approach.

https://selfgovern.com/

Under Convention of States.

[Taxman]

Thanks for posting this article. Been a lot of chatter about it, but, IMHO, we don’t need no steenkin’ Article V convention!

We need an electorate with the smarts and the gumption to elect Congressmen, Senators and Presidents who have the character, courage and intestinal fortitude to respect the Constitution and the Oath they take!

We can start down that path in November by sending all of the LIEberals home! Let us retire those evildoers!

We the People MUST elect men and women of character, courage and fortitude to go to WDC and start sorting things out!

If we do that in November, November, 2016 will be a piece of cake!

[Jane Long]

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[nathanbedford]

Nathan Bedford's first Maxim of the American Constitution:

The Constitution has become so distorted in interpretation and application that it has become at best ineffective in protecting liberty and at worst an instrument inflicting tyranny.

Nathan Bedford's second Maxim of the American Constitution:

The American Constitution is being amended everyday without the consent of the governed.

In order to believe that a Convention of the States presents a greater threat to liberty than our current state of politics one must believe:

1. The Constitution is not being amended by three women in black robes +1 liberal in black robes +1 swing vote on a case by case basis.

2. The Constitution is not being amended at the caprice of the president by executive order.

3. The Constitution is not being amended at the caprice of the president when he chooses which laws he will "faithfully" execute.

4. The Constitution is not being amended daily by regulation done by an unaccountable bureaucracy.

5. The Constitution is not being amended by simply being ignored.

6. The Constitution is not being amended by international treaty.

7. The Constitution is not being amended by Executive Order creating treaty powers depriving citizens of liberty as codified in the Bill of Rights.

8. The Constitution is not being amended by international bureaucracies such as, UN, GATT, World Bank, etc.

9. The Constitution is not being amended by the Federal Reserve Bank without reference to the will of the people.

10. The federal government under our current "constitutional" regime has suddenly become capable of reforming itself, balancing the budget and containing the debt.

11. The national debt of the United States is sustainable and will not cause the American constitutional system and our economy to crash and with them our representative democracy, the rule of law, and the Constitution, such as it is, itself.

12. The Republican Party, presuming it gains a majority in the House and the Senate and gains the White House, will now do what is failed to do even under Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush and balance the budget, reduce the debt, stop regulating, reform the tax system, end crony capitalism, appoint judges who will not betray us and, finally, listen to the people.

13. That a runaway Convention of the States will occur, that it will persuade the delegates from conservative states, that it will be ratified by three quarters of the states' legislatures among whom conservatives control a majority, and the end result will somehow be worse than what we have now.

14. If we do nothing everything will be fine; if we keep doing what we have been doing everything will be fine; we have all the time in the world.

[Da Bilge Troll]

"what on Earth makes anyone think they’d pay attention to a revised version?"

How will they ignore term limits? How would they ignore a repeal of the 17th Amendment? How would they ignore a state veto over their actions?

"the operators need to be replaced"

And how, exactly, would you propose we do that? Let's hear your plan! I don't know about you, but I've been trying to do just that for at least the last 40 years.

[Da Bilge Troll]

"no matter how they amend the constitution, the courts are going to make up whatever they want it to say anyway"

So your solution is to do nothing?

[Da Bilge Troll]

"the Frankenstein monster(s) they come up with"

And those monsters will never be ratified. What's the risk?

[Da Bilge Troll]

"The leftists will take over the process"

How? Seriously - let us be prepared for it! How would they do that?

There’s nothing wrong with the Constitution."

I disagree. How can you look at America today and say that? Reality bites!

"This very process will foster further disregard for it."

How? Again, I hear these scary phrases repeated again and again, but I never hear an explanation. How will this "foster further disregard for it"?

[Da Bilge Troll]

"Anyone who thinks an Article V convention wouldn’t be absolutely and completely hijacked by progressives in both parties is living in a dream world."

How would they "hijack" it? And if they did, how would the product ever be ratified by 3/4ths of the states? And based on the world we live in today, what's the downside?

[Da Bilge Troll]

"It opens up a Pandora's Box."

How does it do that? I hear these Chicken-little phrases all the time but none of you ever explain how? So, how?

[Da Bilge Troll]

"You mean like the fellows who sent delegates to tweak the Articles of Confederation?"

So let me get this straight: The original Constitutional Convention overstepped their authority and, even though the result was ratified unanimously by the states, it was illegal. So our current Constitution is invalid.

Do I have that about right?

[Da Bilge Troll]

"a convention poses the danger of producing a bogus and illegitimate 'Constitution'"

Everything this convention produces has to be ratified by 38 states, so how exactly can this convention pose such a danger? Is the sky falling as well?

[Da Bilge Troll]

"If we can't stop the left in their continual degradation of the meaning of the current constitution, any new constitution will also fail. "

So your solution is to do nothing?

"This is a risky roll of the dice."

In what way? The convention has no power! It can only propose! What's so risky about that?

[Da Bilge Troll]

"We the People MUST elect men and women of character"

Good luck with your plan. What do you estimate it's chances are?

[katana]

You’re far more optimistic than me about the what would come out of a constitutional convention populated by the types of “statesmen” and women we are cursed with today. Their perfidy toward the constitution we have now is one point, but I honestly dread what might emerge from a gaggle of today’s politicians, almost all of whom are likely to be lawyers (as opposed to the mix of classically educated propertied men - no women - newly emerged from the Revolution who spawned what we have) and other categories of thieves. And to answer your question about to go about changing the “operators” the ballot box is the only way short of resorting to another kind which I’m not inclined to mention.

[zeugma]

So let me get this straight: The original Constitutional Convention overstepped their authority and, even though the result was ratified unanimously by the states, it was illegal. So our current Constitution is invalid.

Do I have that about right?

I said nothing about it being illegal. What I was pointing out is that once you have a ConCon in session, there is no way it won't run far beyond any mandate it might have.

The original convention of the states was empaneled with the charge to make recommendations to change the Articles of Confederation to improve the way the government worked. Rather than do that, it rewrote it from scratch. IMO, what they came up with was a vast improvement over what had previously existed anywhere. Furthermore, as a confederation of States, they had the right and ability to alter or abolish the Fedgov charter and form a new compact between the States, which is what the Constitution is.

I would shudder to think what a modern day con-con would come up with. The list of the "Bill of Rights", will be a mile long and will include everything to the right to abortion on demand at taxpayer expense, to guaranteed housing.

You may disagree, but I think history is on my side with this.

[Pollster1]

Everything this convention produces has to be ratified by 38 states, so how exactly can this convention pose such a danger? Is the sky falling as well?

I wish that the far left's conduct justified your trust. Imagine that we had a convention, produced something stupid, and then 22 states ratified. There is no constitutional limit on the time for an additional 16 states to ratify. I can imagine the gun grabbers using the next mass shooting to push for ratification of anti-gun sections or of the entire thing in nearby states, the professional racists using the next Trayvon/Ferguson incident to push for ratification, and so on, so that short-term events would lead to an increasing number of ratifications based on emotion or on guilt. My trust in today's political system is not at a high level.

[TBP]

Start by repealing the 16th and 17th, then adopting Levin’s Liberty Amendments, then a few other things.

[Da Bilge Troll]

"the ballot box is the only way"

Good luck with that plan. What would you estimate are the chances of its' success?

[Taxman]

We (the USA) are on a binge — we are the alcoholic who, at the very last minute, and at the nadir of his/her life, rock bottom, decides to change his/her ways, and come back to lead a productive life.

We are almost there, and are soon to enter a national 12-step program.

Take that to the bank!