Ukraine crisis: Rebel military chief Strelkov 'quits'

BBC ^ | 14 Aug 14 | Unknown

[McGruff]

[lodi90]

It is horrible to witness the Ukrainian fascists murdering at will...priests and kids...while Plugs Biden chatters with the fascists in Kiev.

---

That’s a nice Russian fairy tale but it doesn’t match the facts in Donbas. The killing started in Sloviansk in April when the Russians arrived. The deaths stopped when they left.

Russians and their fellow travelers like you are fine with political killing. Putin killed 25,000 Russian civilians in Chechnya. A few thousand more dead women and children in Ukraine mean nothing to Putinists like you.

[wetphoenix]

~Yanukovych was a thief who looted billions from Ukraine, dismantled the military~

Keep spreading Kiev propaganda? How was a Ukrainian military before Yanukovych? The answer is there was no military for 23 years and counting, instead there was a garage sale, pushing their advanced assets to rogue regimes and non-governmental actors at bargain prices. You say Ukraine should have kept nukes at the time. Many of these could detonate in US on 9/11 in this case.
As for Yanukovych stealing money you say it like it is not a norm for the Ukraine. You won’t get a license plane without a bribe there.

[Thunder90]

But the fact that Europe will likely fall apart attempting to bail out Ukraine at the same time Russia cuts it off from oil would be a win in Russia’s book.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

You say Ukraine should have kept nukes at the time. Many of these could detonate in US on 9/11 in this case.

The only country that has been accused of having ties to Al-Qaeda, and of even having the potential of sending over a nuke using their means, has been Russia, not Ukraine, which Russia demanded be disarmed of their Nukes, with Clinton agreeing, under the false promise that Russia would never invade them. And the only country that has been accused of using such vile means to murder innocents has been Russia, not Ukraine.

"Appearing alongside high-profile opponents of Mr Putin, Mr Litvinenko continued to make allegations about his former bosses. Perhaps most notably, he alleged that al-Qaeda number two Ayman al-Zawahiri was trained by the FSB in Dagestan in the years before the 9/11 attacks."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6163502.stm

"As John Dunlop points out in The Moscow Bombings of September 1999, the attacks were the equivalent for Russians of September 11, 2001, for Americans. They aroused a fear of terrorism—along with a desire for revenge against the Chechens—that Russians had not known since Stalin used the supposed terrorist threat as a pretext to launch his bloody purges of the 1930s. Yet unlike in the American case, Russian authorities have stonewalled all efforts to investigate who was behind these acts of terror and why they happened. In the words of Russian journalist Yuliya Kalinina: “The Americans several months after 11 September 2001 already knew everything—who the terrorists were and where they come from…. We in general know nothing.” Dunlop, a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, seeks in his book to provide the “spade work” for an official Russian inquiry, if it ever were to be initiated (a highly doubtful proposition as long as Putin remains in power). He draws on investigative reporting by Russian journalists, accounts of Russian officials in law enforcement agencies, eyewitness testimony, and the analyses of Western journalists and academics. The evidence he provides makes an overwhelming case that Russian authorities were complicit in these horrific attacks."

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/nov/22/finally-we-know-about-moscow-bombings/

" The most widely acknowledged fact is that Kremlin oligarch Boris Berezovsky gave the al Qaeda-connected Chechen terrorist leader Shamil Basayev $1 million prior to the 1999 Dagestan incursion that triggered the latest Chechen conflict. kremlinIn his book, Godfather of the Kremlin, Forbes senior editor and historian Paul Klebnikov noted that Berezovsky supplied the Chechen terrorists with cash (according to Chechen President Aslan Maskhadov). Having interviewed the leading players of the Chechen drama, Klebnikov described the Second Chechen War (that began in 1999) as a "double game." Klebnikov explained this game in the following terms: "To the extent Berezovsky represented the interests of the Yeltsin regime in Chechnya, the Kremlin had been undermining the [Chechen] moderates, supporting the extremists financially and politically, and consequently sowing the seeds of conflict." The best-case scenario would be that a hare-brained Kremlin scheme backfired. "The worst-case scenario," Klebnikov admitted, "is that the Berezovsky strategy with the Chechen warlords was a deliberate attempt to fan the flames of war." To make the case clearly: the Kremlin financed the Wahhabi extremists (i.e., commanders Basayev and Khattab) who invaded Dagestan in August 1999 and triggered the Second Chechen War."

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/jr-nyquist/the-chechen-war-and-bin-ladens-nukes

Russia isn't just a threat to its neighbors like Georgia, Ukraine, etc. But is a mortal threat to the United States as well.

[wetphoenix]

I see. It seems like you aren’t a type of guy in love with tinfoil crap of domestic origin, but Russian tinfoil truthers are all your best buds.

[Paul R.]

I don’t get why people can’t secede from any country if that is what they want.

Now, that is just plain ignorant.

[Yashcheritsiy]

elections are not legitimate when most people don’t vote

Er, kinda like the vote in the Crimea to secede and join Russia, the one where less than 10% of the population actually voted?

[free_life]

May it cost them their blood too.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

but Russian tinfoil truthers are all your best buds. Russians promote 9/11 Trutherism as a matter of projection.

[wetphoenix]

What Russians? You seems like generalizing too much. I’m not promoting trutherism, but you do. Putin finances Wahhabis to justify a Chechen war sounds about as real as if one told that Bush in person brought 9/11 terrorists to a pilot school. Hats off for 9/11 truthers, at least their case is not that wierdly illogical, comparing to muzzie Chechen version.
Especially in light of the fact that Wahhabi sponsors are well known, and their DC lobbyists too.

[1rudeboy]

Putin has no problem whatsoever with using Chechens to do his dirty work. Witness Georgia, and now Ukraine.

[wetphoenix]

These aren’t Wahhabis but seculars who helped to take control over Chechnya from Islamists in the first place.
I haven’t heard any stories about rapes and beheadings from both Georgia and Ukraine.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

What Russians?

State run Russian media, that's who. They promote 9/11 Trutherism.

I’m not promoting trutherism, but you do.

Trutherism implies that it is as loony as what Russia promotes against the United States. In Russia, people are routinely killed, imprisoned, or tortured by the regime, and that includes people who pointed the finger at Moscow for the Moscow apartment building explosions. There is no controversy about this. It's not like these people merely went missing and we don't know what happened to them. They're dead, and their graves can be visited. There, it is fairly normal practice for the regime ti murder its own people, and, hence, the evidence stands for itself, even against anti-American Russian propagandists.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

These aren’t Wahhabis but seculars who helped to take control over Chechnya from Islamists in the first place.

You sure? Let's examine the evidence. Note the hand sign the "secular" is giving in the back. It is an Islamic hand sign.

Compare:

You should send an order to high command over at the GRU and tell them to tell their Chechen terrorists not to be so obviously Islamic. Hurts their propaganda efforts against conservatives.

[wetphoenix]

~In Russia, people are routinely killed, imprisoned, or tortured by the regime, and that includes people who pointed the finger at Moscow for the Moscow apartment building explosions. There is no controversy about this.~

Ok, I won’t argue. Your dedication to this idea is truly religious. It is useless to use arguments in this case.

~You sure? Let’s examine the evidence. Note the hand sign the “secular” is giving in the back. It is an Islamic hand sign.~

I said “secular”, I haven’t said “atheists”. We have to consider their background.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Ok, I won’t argue. Your dedication to this idea is truly religious. It is useless to use arguments in this case.

If you were more honest, you would say "I cannot argue against you because what you say is true."

I said “secular”, I haven’t said “atheists”. We have to consider their background.

Their background is that they are from Chechnya, where Putin is building an Islamic caliphate of his own:

"The Kadyrovs were once rebels themselves. Then they switched sides. Since Akhmat's death, the Kremlin has relied on Ramzan and his armed militia to put down the insurgency and to rebuild Chechnya.

snip

There are sushi bars, beauty parlours, skyscrapers, even a "karaoke comedy club". Billions of dollars of aid from Moscow have funded the facelift and helped the Chechen capital rise from the rubble.

While rebuilding Chechnya, Ramzan Kadyrov is promoting what he calls "traditional Islam": it is making Chechnya feel less and less part of Russia.

snip

Alcohol is no longer freely available in the shops; there are segregated sports facilities for men and women; at the computer store, you can buy an iPad and pick up a free copy of the Koran; painted on the ceiling of my Grozny hotel room is an arrow pointing towards Mecca.

"I'm terrified. I think 10 years from now, we'll have raised a whole generation of religious extremists”

Anonymous Chechen woman

Under Mr Kadyrov, there is also a stricter Islamic dress code. I meet one woman who tells me that she had been threatened for not wearing a headscarf in public.

She is deeply concerned by the policy of Islamisation. Fearing reprisals, the woman asks to remain anonymous."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-19627632

[wetphoenix]

~If you were more honest, you would say “I cannot argue against you because what you say is true.”~

What else?

~”I’m terrified. I think 10 years from now, we’ll have raised a whole generation of religious extremists”~

I don’t like current Chechnya much but it is a radical improvement comparing to 20 years ago, when feral mohameddans were running wild, chopping heads etc. This poor lady must be too young to remember, but she is certainly old enough to know how was her city looking just a decade ago.