Posted on 08/12/2014 12:07:47 PM PDT by servo1969
Lt. Boyd said Williams was found in his bedroom “clothed, in a seated position, unresponsive with a belt secured around his neck.”
There were also several cuts on his left wrist and a pocket knife with a dried red substance was found in the vicinity, he stated.
The Academy-Award winner was 63.
“The work of the coroner’s office is not complete at this time,” Lt. Boyd stressed. He said a final cause of death would be released in several weeks after toxicology tests are completed.
“The forensic examination conducted by Dr. Joseph Cohen did not [indicate]…that Mr. Williams had been in a struggle prior to him being diseased,” he added.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
If it is hopeless, there is no hope. It’s the definition of the word.
I have two daughters.Both have the highest I.Q.’s possible.My first born graduated high school at fourteen,went on to cosmetology school,graduated at seventeen.At which time she enlisted in the Navy.She is Bi-Polar.She can be as sweet as can be and in an instant be so evil so as to be scary and does not care who or what she hurts.I have had to distance myself and my family for fear of harm coming to them.She is evil and very cunning,which combined is a recipe for disaster.
Thankfully my other daughter is a successful attorney with numerous degrees.I love them both the same,but on the same token I tread very softly.Yes it pains me.
I am not unfamiliar with those in such states. One of my friends sons had this issue from about ten yrs. of age. Violence could errupt in a heartbeat....In and out one clinic after another.....died at 21 yrs. old after killing a taxi driver, who also had this problem. Both mothers of these young men got together and were glad, in their sorrow ,that their children were finally at peace.
In both these cases the parents had known throughout these children’s lives that they should be institutionalized......but of course once they are 18 you cannot do a thing as they are now considered adults.
We can only pray God’s hand on them no matter the outcome....but my friends family were constantly fearful of what their son could do...because he was so violent. Their other two children spent their lives walking on tip toes so as not to upset him...it affects entire families.
Obviously slept in separate rooms, but still one would say goodbye in a.m. or at least check on spouse, maybe. I wonder what that conversation was about at 10 pm.
I found the closed pocket knife on a table near him with dried blood when they opened the blade to be odd.
Not I, it was the police who found it...
You aren’t thinking this through....your comment:
“Also, I believe the belt was attached to the door know, not the jamb.”
NO, the police clearly said it was wedged into the door frame of closet door and RW in seat of a chair, not on the knob, as he was off the chair by a few inches.
Where is the belt buckle going to end up if someone is using the belt as a noose? Think about it.
Appy Pappy was being sarcastic.
“NO, the police clearly said it was wedged into the door frame of closet door and RW in seat of a chair, not on the knob, as he was off the chair by a few inches.”
Okay, my mistake, I read some reports that said it was attached to the knob. If he wedged in it the door higher up, then it makes the entire thing even more plausible as a suicide. Certainly more plausible than the idea of a lone woman dragging a the dead weight of a man’s corpse and suspending it in that position.
“Where is the belt buckle going to end up if someone is using the belt as a noose? Think about it.”
I have no idea what you are trying to get at. Belt buckles usually end up where you buckle them.
Not if you are making a noose to hang yourself they don’t.
Okay, wedge the flat end (not buckle end as that would be around the neck) into your closet door frame, and shut the closet door on that flat part of the belt.... NOT over the door, and put your weight onto that belt from a chair backed up to the door frame....see how well that works....just don’t put it around your neck. I would bet that it does not hold....
Of course you may be right and he committed suicide. He was a smart man, and I find the way he did this unusual, because if he had a drug problem wouldn’t he just have bought some pills and done it the easy way?
One more thing...no one I heard ever said those cuts were not post mortem and if those things occurred within minutes of each other it would be hard to tell....
Note that I am not accusing anyone, just stating that there are other options here that could be something other than suicide....a lot of murders have been passed off as suicide. Things from a struggle can be picked up, floors vacuumed, and the presence of the room look as if there was no struggle. It would not be the first time.
Believe me this is my field of study and I taught Criminology, and we have seen some really bizarre things.
Yes, he has all the signs of a person who could have committed suicide, no doubt. I would have expected pills or a simpler solution, if he was serious about it. When I heard asphyxiation I thought sexual accident or he had a stairway and hung himself. He was fully clothed, so did he not go to bed or did he get up and get dressed for the occasion....I’ll wait until time of death to think that one over.
Things are sometimes not what they seem...and sometimes they are. You could be 100% right, but I think I would investigate more. A suicidal person usually has a plan, this was not planned.
I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, but who says anyone dragged him anywhere, a chair is the same height as a bed, and if you strangled someone sleeping, of course some struggle would ensue, but the killer has a definate advantage. There was a financial crisis in their lives...he was doing all those four projects for money to keep the lifestyle. He said as much in an interview....he was broke.
Sitting the person up on bed and transferring to a chair is doable, any CNA can tell you that who moves the elderly around. I’ve done it during my college years, as I paid for my education in Criminal Justice.
His wife was 20 years younger than him, taller than him, and at least the same weight maybe 20-30 lbs less. She could be a Saint, this is not an accusation....I just hate it when people make rash conclusions about a crime scene....or a suicide without a note.
I would be more convinced, totally, if he had tried suicide before. Or he had taken a bottle of pills...what addict wouldn’t prefer that?
If he was suicidal, I would think he had a bottle somewhere for that purpose should he decide to go through with it. Hollywood actors can get anything they want at any time of the day or any place. Or did he have a morbid state of mind? I don’t know, just speculating for now until the coroners report, and if this is like some of the elite communities here, and they haven’t had many murders over the years, it will come out suicide as they do not have the ability to figure it out. I have seen it happen before...
Look I am just pulling your chain, Williams could have folded over the flat end of the belt and put it in the door jam, and it would have held him, but the point is NO One should ever assume that a suicide has happened until all the evidence is in, evaluated, and double checked.
How much life insurance did he have? We don’t know that yet.
He was in financial trouble, and they may have been facing bankruptcy, so that is motive for both options.
Yep, me too; but anyone can see the obvious. Suicide - murder of one self - is not the work of the Lord. He went down going against His Holy Spirit, the blasphemy that will send you to hell.
NO IT ISN'T! YES, IT IS! NO IT ISN'T! YES, IT IS! NO IT ISN'T! YES, IT IS! NO IT ISN'T! YES, IT IS! NO IT ISN'T! YES, IT IS!........................................
I think it is an oddity that he was hanged in a seated position with a belt wedged only in a door. In other words, he could have stood up at any time. The superficial cuts (as they called them) from a pocket knife suggest a few possibilities to me.
1. That this was intended as a suicide gesture, but no one found him in time to ‘rescue’ him. Perhaps the TV was too loud. Perhaps he waited too long to stand up and passed out from lack of oxygen, thereby completing an act that wasn’t certain to result in a hanging given the position of the belt and the sitting position.
2. Perhaps they might find another cause, such as a heart attack or stroke while he was in the middle of a suicide gesture. Perhaps a crushed larynx?
3. It takes an awful lot of determination to choke yourself when you could easily stand up and relieve the pressure. It takes overcoming the self-preservation instinct not to stand up and relieve the pressure.
“It takes an awful lot of determination to choke yourself when you could easily stand up and relieve the pressure. It takes overcoming the self-preservation instinct not to stand up and relieve the pressure.”
This is just not true. For evidence, just look at the game of “pass out” that teenagers play, where they intentional asphyxiate themselves until they pass out. It is quite easy to overcome this instinct until you are unconsciousness and unable to physically resist.
The only difference between that game and suicide is that in the game, you are in a position where, as soon as you pass out, the pressure is relieved and oxygen starts flowing again, so you don’t (usually) die. If instead, you were in a position where you would need to move in order to restore the oxygen flow, you would likely die without ever regaining consciousness.
Another simple evidence that your contention is wrong is an activity as common as swimming. It’s against your self preservation instinct to dive underwater and hold your breath while your oxygen levels drop, and yet people do this intentionally and casually all the time. The self-preservation instinct might be a high hurdle for lower animals to hop over, but compared to the force of human will, it’s pretty insignificant.
Suicide, like marriage and murder, requires a specific intent. I understand completely the concept of suicide as the ultimate and irreversible mortal sin. I also however, know that to commit a mortal sin, one has to have knowledge that it is a mortal sin. Having a loved one who has come very close to this state of mind and who in fact had major hallucinations when he was off his meds, I know that God was there with him. So Williams had his savior and his guardian angel there with him at the end and only they know his true state of mind. So I’ll pray for his soul. Reading the Divine Comedy has convinced me that we never know who is going to end up in heaven and in hell.
I’m going to disagree with you because everything you just mentioned had an escape clause built into it. They weren’t really risking anything.
We had a drowning in the bathtub murder trial around here not too long ago, and the prosecutor’s point was that even when unconscious a body’s reaction would be to flail out of that water.
So, I’ll stick with my opinion. It takes determination to kill yourself in such a way.
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