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To: sargon

After Japan surrendered, the Chinese had a similar moire thorough plan they intended to carry out - until they saw Hiroshima and Nagasaki - to which the comment was: You Americans do good work.

Civilized or not, the world is governed by the use of force. Wishing it was otherwise is all well and good but in the end just another fools’ errand.

In the religious war, now under way between the West and Islam, the end will only come after Mecca is wiped off the Earth, else the west surrenders - better Muslim than dead. There is no “in between” - however much one might wish it so - “in between” (shades of grey) typifies Western thinking; absolutism typifies Islamic thinking (the will of allah).

The entire population of Palestinians are the ones who elected Hamas to power, and are therefore equally complicit with those who lead the war against Israel. Islam only understands the absolute brutality of war and can only be deterred by its use. Islam can only be destroyed when the last Muslim is dead or when its greatest symbol is destroyed: Mecca/Medina.

One cannot fight a real war and some away with a clear conscience - there are always things to regret. However, one can pretend to fight with limited ROIs, nice speeches, humanitarian pauses, truce talks, calling battles wars (Iraq, Afghanistan) and so forth, which is what the West is doing now. All this does, in the end, is postpone the inevitable, increase the number of deaths, and prolong the war. For example, WWI was very brutal, but lasted only four years; WWII was extremely brutal, but lasted only from 1939-1945 or six years. This one began in 1979 with Iran’s declaration of war against the US - or 35 years with countless millions dead before the West actually joins forces against Islam.

In the end there can be either Islam and Muslims, or the West - not both. Thus an example must be made - the more brutal the better. The longer it takes for this to sink in, the more brutal and example will be needed, and the longer it takes, the more people will perish.

WWI saw deaths in the low 10s of millions; WWII saw deaths in the 100 millions - what do you suppose this war’s death count will be, unless the West comes to its senses and acts?


59 posted on 07/25/2014 12:39:25 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: PIF
You speak of the Muslim world (actually, extremists within it, it's certainly not monolithic) acting in terms of barbaric absolutism, and then you advocate that the West use the same monstrous tactics?

If that ever were to happen, then "the West" would have descended down to the savage, animal way of thinking which you attribute to the extremist Muslim world.

In other words, if that happened, the West would no longer be the West. It would become an unrecognizable perversion of something which no longer exists.

Part of being a member of Western humanity means being humane, even merciful. Such characteristics are what separate us from the animals we oppose. If you're saying the only solution is to destroy ourselves by becoming that which we hate, then maybe a more "classical" destruction of the West is to be preferred. At least then, in losing, we would still be what we are as we meet our end.

I do tend to agree with you regarding the import of this conflict. It's not something which can be overlooked, swept aside, or dealt with cursorily. I am absolutely convinced that if the Muslim world does not purge itself of these extremist elements from within, then the solution will finally be imposed from the outside. And that means their obliteration, a destruction as complete as that which the Nazis ultimately experienced.

And yet, there are still Germans in the world, despite the horrendous ideology which they for a time embraced. Germans have rejected Nazism, but they certainly still embrace the murderous abomination called socialism, to whatever degree.

I believe that a similar process will take place within the Muslim world, since the only alternative will be their annihilation. Eventually, whatever elements of Islam which are not obliterated will become "watered down" to the point that they are more compatible with civil world society.

Thus, I don't believe that we should be hysterically advocating genocidal executions of all fighting age Palestinian males, for instance. Not only is the sentiment patently un-Christian, but it will only serve to drive more moderate elements into the arms of extremists, and that only makes them stronger and our task more difficult.

Moderate, civilized Muslims do exist: just go down to your local convenience store for an example. These people want to live their lives in peace, and otherwise be left alone, just like you and I do.

Just as it will always be legal to own a copy of Mein Kampf, it will always be legal to own a copy of the Koran, and thus there will always be some who follow its teachings to whatever extent.

In summary, I don't believe that the Western (Christian, if you will) solution to the Islamic extremism problem will ever take such an absolutist form, because if it did, we would be no better than our enemies, and would indeed become indistinguishable from that which we hated. And that is not victory.

I can't help but think that, somehow, some way, Christ will lead us down a different path, perhaps one which we can't see yet. But if we go down the savage absolutist path, it will not be Christ who leads us.

Who knows, maybe He will return in time to preempt such a crisis?

Regardless, once that particular problem is solved, we will still have this annoying totalitarian Marxism thing to deal with in the (ostensibly) civilized world.

And, IMHO, that problem is ultimately going to make Islamic extremism pale in comparison.

Have a nice day.

63 posted on 07/25/2014 10:05:31 PM PDT by sargon
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