[omega4412]

I’ve long wondered about the proverbial $700 government toilet seats. Was it $20 for the toilet seat and $680 excess profit, or was it a $20 toilet seat with $680 of paperwork?

[Myrddin]

I’ve long wondered about the proverbial $700 government toilet seats. Was it $20 for the toilet seat and $680 excess profit, or was it a $20 toilet seat with $680 of paperwork?

It was a toilet seat custom manufactured to fit on a P3 Orion toilet. It was custom built to original specs to fit on an aircraft that has been out of production for years. It bolts directly in place with no airframe modifications or recertifications required. Recall that aircraft parts have an expensive certification and maintenance tracking protocol. Custom builds to spec and short runs make for expensive items.

[Chances Are]

Paperwork is part of it.

Onerous and fantastic regs add a considerable amount.

But in addition to all this, in defense related programs, you get the full support of the firm for the product delivered for the life of the contract - sometimes beyond.

Then there is the phenomenon of contributing costs to contracts that have expired, but on which the government wants work to continue, until such time a new contract, with new terms and requirements, is signed.

Happens all the time.

Defense work is expensive, laborious, time consuming, and most of all, cutting edge.

For the DOD and contractors, the work is such that it is very fluid, as the threat is always changing. Should a war or conflict ensue, you don't want 5-year old technology employed against the enemies’ state of the art technology, do you?

Defense contracts are huge, but so is the amount of work involved in delivering on them.

The $500 toilet seat, or the $1500 hammer, is a straw man. These items are so priced because DOD, DIA, CIA, and NSA (maybe more) are charging for things they don't want you, or, more importantly, the enemy, to know about.

Is there fraud, graft and corruption involved in these things? Most probably. And it should be rooted out, if it exists.

But no matter how you view it, Defense is still, now, and always gonna cost a lot of money.

A lot!

CA....

[TalonDJ]

Was it $20 for the toilet seat and $680 excess profit, or was it a $20 toilet seat with $680 of paperwork

Paperwork, verification testing, acceptance testing, documentation, requirements, design traceability... believe me it can spiral into crazy land very very fast. It is easy to make a toilet. It is hard and time consuming to PROVE it works, prove it the same as the last one you sold them, and have all the paperwork in place to be audited if that one seat ends up defective. 20$ does not begin to cover it. The military has to wave a LOT of their standard operating procedures to get things for what civilians pay.

[woodbutcher1963]

It may be that they had to specially design the toilet seat to fit their requirements and then they only wanted 18 of them. They still have to create a plug, then a mold, manufacture and as you point out there is almost always special packaging requirements with government contracts.

If Kohler or American Standard was making 1,800,000 toilet seats that design and engineering costs would be spread over the cost of the entire production run. The per seat cost is much less. This is the way it was explained to me once.