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To: achilles2000
achilles2000: "You are long on assertions that simply are wrong."

Ha! No, they're all correct, and demonstrable as needed.
Your problem obviously is lack of reading comprehension exceeded by your ignorance of real history, as I will show...

achilles2000: "1. The Constitution was a compromise.
Because of compromises many who opposed early drafts ultimately supported it."

Of course, many compromises were made, most notoriously, the 3/5 rule for counting slaves -- hence the moniker "slave-power".

Still, many adamantly opposed ratifying the new Constitution in 1788, and here's where your ignorance of actual history betrays you -- those who favored the new Constitution were called "Federalists", as in "The Federalist Papers" by notable Federalists Hamilton, Madison and Jay.
Those who opposed the new Constitution were called anti-Federalists, as in "The Anti-Federalist Papers" by New York Governor George Clinton, Judge Robert Yates, including some speeches by Patrick Henry.

When the Constitution was fully ratified, those Anti-Federalists were defeated, and so are not, repeat NOT, Founders of the Constitution.
That makes their opinions of no account in determining what was, or was not, Founders original intent.

achilles2000: "2. 'Federalists' were a political party that died an early death.
Supporting the existence of a federal government doesn’t make one a 'Federalist'.
If that were the case, I would have been a “Federalist”, but I can’t have been because you have decreed that I am an “anti-federalist”.
As long as we are talking about political parties, Democratic-Republicans also supported the Constitution, FYI."

Sorry, but you are very confused and unschooled.
Really, you should have paid attention in history class -- this is all the most fascinating stuff imaginable!

The fact is that after their defeat in the ratifying conventions, anti-Federalists soon became a political party in the new government, under Jefferson's leadership, first known as the "anti-Administration Party", they eventually became Jefferson's "Democratic-Republicans".
Jefferson & Madison, of course, were originally Federalists, supporting ratification, and in Madison's case leading the charge.
But they joined with anti-Federalists in opposing Hamilton's ideas, and eventually opposed the entire Northern party of John Adams, then known as "Federalists".

Important to remember that the Northern Federalist party eventually collapsed as serious opposition Jefferson's party, now called "Democratic-Republicans" over New England threats to secede because of Madison's War of 1812.

Now must stop here, will pick this up again later...

288 posted on 06/10/2014 8:49:14 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

The 3/5 provision was also relevant for tax reasons.

As for the rest, you really have superficial view and knowledge of the process and history of ratification. You should know, for example, that many who opposed the final draft of the Constitution decided to support it once the Bill of Rights was promised. “Fedralist” and “federalist” are not the same thing. Here is what Jefferson actually thought of the Constitution and Bill of Rights: “There has just been opposition enough” to force adoption of a Bill of Rights, but not to drain the federal government of its essential “energy.”

At this point, you are just flailing around.


289 posted on 06/10/2014 9:59:54 AM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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