Posted on 04/17/2014 11:35:37 AM PDT by SkyPilot
The agnostic is like the political “moderate”. S/he is an unbeliever who doesn’t want to be thought of as such.
You claim this a LOT.
Now is the time for you to
Look!
Over THERE...
We don't know what George Washington said. We only know what history SAYS he said.
Yeah; I've figgered this out already.
IYHO, can souls even BE saved?
Thanks, Satan!
Psalm 91:11-12
For He shall give His angels charge over you,
To keep you in all your ways.
In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.
And what would be the effect of doing that?
Next thing ya know we'll be admonished to read Dreams of my Father all the way thru...
Oh; she’s a believer all right. Just not in line with Christianity.
It is amazing proof when one hears the unbeliever talking about scripture HOW GOOD GOD IS TO HAVE REVEALED HIMSELF to people (and each of His people can say here, “revealed Himself to ME!”)
Salvation is ALL of the Lord!
Remember, a prophecy isn't something that comes true. A prophecy is something that someone SAYS will come true. If you believe there's a God at all, there are only two kinds of prophecy: those that have come true, and those that have not come true yet.
(It says in Is. 53:6 - All we [Israel] like sheep have gone astray; we [Israel] have turned every one to his [each Israelite’s] own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all [all of us Israelites]. Who is left of the nation of Israel to serve as the “him” upon whom the Lord lays the iniquity of Israel?
It's hard to tell, because it's something taken out of the middle of a paragraph. One has to read back to figure out where the paragraph really begins.
When I read back, it looks to me like this area here is a transition of some sort:
11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord.
12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the Lord will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your reward.
Notice "ye." Ye is the Vous form of you, being either formal or plural. Here it sounds like the prophet is addressing all "good" Jews to go out and set an example of Godliness.
13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
This is in future tense, but it's either speaking of Israel itself, or any godly Jew who sets the example.
14 As many were astonished at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
This is in past tense, and switches from Ye to thee, which is singular. It suggests that something was edited out. So it's hard to know who "thee" is, unless it means the prophet, speaking of himself in third person. Saying that any godly Jew gets this reaction from others.
But then it switches back to "he". Note, whoever it is, it's past tense. It's already happened. Most of the rest of it switches back and forth between future and past tense, suggesting someone or something that is already alive or present, and can be observed by the people is addressing. And if it was translated from a language that had gender, it's hard to know if "he" means "he" or "it." (As in, all ships are "she.") Either way, it still sounds like Israel to me.Especially in that a great deal of it is past tense.
The problem with your exegesis is that you fail to “hear” the shifts in the text, whether they are shifts in time, tone, subject.
No, as I've shown above, these things are very important to me.
This is borne out of a stubbornness of heart (my way must be correct - because, well, because that’s the way I [choose to] see it.
No, my approach is born out of the knowledge that these are very old texts, translated several times.
Next time you read Isaiah in one sitting (which, first of all, indicates a mind which isn’t dwelling on/meditating on/contemplating the word of God very carefully),
No, I'm not contemplating "the word of God." I'm reading old texts from a foreign culture in a foreign language, translated by others from foreign cultures through the ages, until they are as we see them today. It's like trying to figure out Mayan text: hard. But not to be taken as literal (I think the end of the 12th Baktun should be warning enough about thinking ancient cultures had much to say about our future.)
try examining how individual parts of the text fit/don’t fit your own exegesis of the text entire. If and when they don’t, you must either adjust your thinking, or disregard what you’ve read. You’ve chosen the latter. Do you understand what I’m after here? Do you understand my question?
Yes, you want me to believe what you believe.
If, as you believe, Christ is not the messiah Israel was to be waiting for, has he [messiah] appeared yet? The answer would have to be “No,” as we see no evidence of his kingdom having been established. Well, since he has not yet appeared:
No, and never will. The Mayans didn't do so well either, ultimately. Nor the Aztecs. Nor the Maori. Nor the Greeks (I mean, look at them now.) Ireland will probably never be united. Tibet will probably never be free. The Cherokee nation will never hunt buffalo across the plains again. Every fallen civilization hopes it will rise again. But they don't.
I’ve done that before...well it took several settings...this is what I came away with.
He loves all men and women. He also loves every man and women INDIVIDUALLY. If you were the only lost sheep in God’s creation, God in Flesh would have died for you personally so that your sins are forgiven and so that you could be established in God’s family. He loves you that deeply and that severely.
He wants not to compress your humanity but to expand it. In the day of your resurrection
you will be made more HUMAN than you possibly could ever have imagined, the same humanity that Christ is now, fully and PURELY human(not this stinking shell of corruption we are wrapped in now) and fully a daughter of God and you will experience the things of God and heaven in ways you never will have dreamed of. Your relationship with Christ and the entire God head will be such that even the angels will have longed to look into but will never know of it. While you’ll enjoy the company of other souls with you, your relationship with God will be yours uniquely and not like anybody else’s.
And that is what I came away with after reading Isaiah. God loves you and if you were the only one he needed to die for just to spare your soul from the pit...then God would have sent his Son...just for you! We can ply scriptures and spin explanations...but the final distillation of everything in the Bible comes down to the love God has for the world and for every individual in it, past present and future, so much love that God came as the incarnate son of God, and sacrificed himself as that final perfect sacrifice, so that you might not die but have life eternal with him. Isaiah is just a variant of Joshua or Yeshua...they all mean “Saviour”. When I look at Isaiah, I see Jesus Christ wooing the lost like a suitor woos a woman to be his bride.
God loves you “Lady”...
Quoting me: “If, as you believe, Christ is not the messiah Israel was to be waiting for, has he [messiah] appeared yet? The answer would have to be “No,” as we see no evidence of his kingdom having been established. Well, since he has not yet appeared...”
You said, “No, and never will.”
This, then should conclude the matter for all. You have been discussing, questioning, examining an ancient text for almost a week that you say you can have no confidence in (”No, I’m not contemplating ‘the word of God.’ I’m reading old texts from a foreign culture in a foreign language, translated by others from foreign cultures through the ages, until they are as we see them today. It’s like trying to figure out Mayan text: hard. But not to be taken as literal”). You have been asking how messiah is to be identified. You’ve repeatedly asked what proof-texts support NT notions of messiah, have been furnished with OT evidences (most of which you’ve ignored or simply indicated your preferred understanding of these - as if these MUST be correct) and now you would say you don’t believe such a person (messiah) did/does/will ever exist! Others have suggested that you have only been playing games here; apparently they are correct. You have shown yourself to be a fraud.
No, I have shown myself to be curious as to why the Jews of Jesus' time acted the way they did. Obvious answer: Jesus was campaigning to be the next King of Israel. He altered his biography to fit their expectations (Bethlehem, David, Solomon.) Some believed him and followed. Others didn't, and killed him. Later, Paul took this story, changed the meaning of it all, and became the head of his own little cult. Said cult has grown into the Christian religion.
“He altered his biography to fit their expectations (Bethlehem, David, Solomon.)...Later, Paul took this story, changed the meaning of it all...”
This is the word according to...a_perfect_lady.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNO72aCnVr0
Looks like you stooped down too far and dashed your head against the stone.
Talk is cheap LC.
Already proved it to you personally, several times, and you don’t even reply to those posts.
The proof is in the positive, not in the negative.
To be “in covenant,” one must be upholding the covenant. All who are failing to do so are called Goyim. There has never been any other application of the word in the scriptures.
If you wish to dispute this, prove it with a positive. Negatives cannot be proven.
.
Would you then, by extension call our U.S. Constitution a cultish document? Our founders credited the Bible in part as being instrumental in the constitution’s creation, which had to be made palatable to the 95 per cent of the Americans at the time who called themselves Christian? The freedoms you enjoy were based on the belief in a man who died and rose again.
Welcome to the cult...there is no escaping it!
Christians have also used the Bible as justification for slavery. Do I blame Christianity, then, for slavery? Of course not. Neither do I credit Christianity for the fact that almost 1800 years later, it occurred to the western world that we might be able to govern ourselves. Let's not get hysterical about this.
Bwahahahahah!
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