Dear Anti-Vaxxers: You Want Pure Nature? OK, Die Young.

Time ^ | April 2 | Jeffrey Kluger

[GAFreedom]

@TMSuchman:

No we are not against vac,ing our kids, just the very toxic materials used in them. With the rates of Autism on the rise, all data seems to be pointing at the materials used in treating our kids. Materials like mercury,formaldehyde,supposed to be a dead virus, but mistakes do happen & live ones get used, need I go on.

False. Measured mercury levels in infants receiving a vaccine preserved by an appropriate amount of thiomersal were low; some were so low that they could not be measured. It causes no harm. Relevant papers: One, Two, Three. More available on request.

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@Yaelle:

each vaccine contains neurotoxic adjuvants and metals and preservatives, and some questionable media...Their health can be compromised by tiny things at that age, even teething, and the parents can not predict which days the child’s gut population is strong enough not to affect the child’s neuro system negatively...The risks for neurological chronic or disabling damage can be far greater than the risk of the disease.

Again, false. The supposed "neurotoxics" cause no harm. Relevant papers: One, Two, Three. More available on request.

I have a few degrees; what should I have gotten more of so that I could understand that ingredients bundled into multiple vaccine doses can harm the brain?

So long as you are a neurochemist that has performed studies on the subject, you would have the expertise and knowledge to determine that.

The question no rabid vaccinator can answer.

The answer to that is contained in herd immunity.

The only things it doesn’t mention is how the toxins etc are “washed” in various formaldehydes.

All meat that you buy in ANY grocery store, including most organic meat (even at Whole Foods)? Washed in formaldehyde.
Especially all ground meat and sausage.
And just about every steak you buy in a chophouse.
Horrified? Don't be. Here's everything you need to know about it. To quote it: "Formaldehyde is naturally present in fruits, vegetables, meats, fish, coffee, and alcoholic beverages."

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@Talisker:

I thought your vaccines protected you from diseases. Why would you care about unvaccinated people, unless your vaccines don’t work? And if they don’t work, why take them, and why try to force them on everyone else?

The answer to that is contained in herd immunity.

And to top it off, you want to use guns to force everyone into your same level of completely unguaranteed vaccination while utterly ignoring the massive pharmaceutical profit margin.

No, I won't force people to get vaccinated. Far from it. But should the unvaccinated get polio, pertussis, measles, etc, I will quarantine them. And I believe it should be permanant in nature, like they used to do with tuberculosis.

[Black Agnes]

Riddle me this. The official stance on global warming is that it’s real, caused by human industrial age CO2.

Do you believe this to be true? Ie, the official stance. Why or why not? Are you smarter than the PhD’s working at NASA and NOAA? Who are you to question their smartness and official research?

[Black Agnes]

Moreover, as I pointed out in a previous post, vaccines are sourced from materials imported from China and India. The FDA has stated many times it’s not their job to test or investigate the safety or contents of these ingredients. The vaccine manufacturers are indemnified from tort so they’re not looking either.

So, you really have NO idea what’s in those vaccines. Safe or not. They might not even have antigens in them.

[GAFreedom]

@I cannot think of a name:

It's sound more and more like people that have been bought off by big pharmaceutical companies to me.

@Yaelle:

There are two clear sides to the vaccination dilemma, and only one side is given in the mainstream media. DOESNT THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING?

What the anti-vaxxers don't know: Big Pharma Supports The Antivaccine Movement: The Real Conspiracy

[Valpal1]

Well, I admit, that sounds totally crazy to me but that was my point, they keep adding the jabs to babies because that’s when it’s easiest to get their hands on them. And it’s not based on science and individual risk factors, but convenience for the “system”.

It’s totally out of control and it’s causing resistance that subverts the intention.

This Derbyshire column first published in National Review rings truer every day in every way.

The Hidden Hand of EFTA http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Culture/efta.html

[Valpal1]

That’s what I’ve been saying this whole time. Delaying marriage and childbearing has risks and that cultural trend accounts for some of the increase in the rates of autism.

[TMSuchman]

As a matter of fact, I’ve had to have leeches applied to me at the USN Balboa in San Diego,Ca. after the Dr.’s had to spend 12 hours repairing my left foot & lower leg.

My kids are vaxx.ed, but have you ever read the paperwork that comes with the med.? I have, & I used to deal with hazmat issues in the Marine Corps, at MCAS Yuma,Az. with the crash fire rescue dept,. before being run over by an illegal alien.

[Black Agnes]

But it has nothing to do with 40yr olds having babies. They’ve ALWAYS had babies. There’s something ENVIRONMENTAL that causes 40yr old prima para’s to have a higher risk of asd babies and other issues. Something that having babies earlier is protective of.

[Black Agnes]

Honey, I worked for pharma. If you think they’re anti vax you’re nuts.

Vaccines represent a $15B+ guaranteed, mandated, INDEMNIFIED income stream. They don’t have to worry about patent expiration, they don’t have to worry about being sued. They don’t, currently, even have to make sure the vaccines even contain antigens for the various diseases they’re meant to prevent.

[RegulatorCountry]

Herd immunity is one thing, risk on an individual level is another. There is such a thing as over-vaccinating. There are individuals who will have adverse reaction. I have an immune response to vaccination myself. So, I choose not to receive the annual flu vaccine. Would I never get another? I won’t rule it out. Does this make me a Bircher ... Oops, “antivaxxer?” The mass labeling bothers me. Can wearing a scarlet AV be far behind?

[Valpal1]

Can you document this claim of most adults having zero-titer measles because I believe this may be one of those factiods not based in fact from a pseudoscience website.

[Black Agnes]

I stay away from psuedoscience websites.

It was a document on the CDC website somewhere. They’re working on mandating MMR boosters for the entire population every 2-3 years. Like they’re working on for the TDaP boosters for the entire population. They’re just working on nailing down the rationale they’ll be using.

The rationale is that most immunity from any vaccine is gone after 10 years so boosters, population wide, are needed on a 2-5 year basis to ensure population wide immunity, ongoing.

When was your last MMR booster? I had FIVE of them in a fairly short period of time. 1yr after the last one I had ZERO titer for Rubella. Hey, maybe I just need to get one every year. Or month. Surely that would work!

[markman46]

I too in the 50’s-60’s had measles, mumps and “red” measles twice and i am still here. most of this is just scare mongering the only vacxx than need to be give is polio, whooping cough and maybe the hep-b

[GAFreedom]

Riddle me this. The official stance on global warming is that it’s real, caused by human industrial age CO2. Do you believe this to be true? Ie, the official stance.

No.

Why or why not?

Because that's not the official stance. In its simplest form, the argument for anthropogenic climate change goes as follows:
1) The Earth's atmosphere keeps the planet much warmer than it would be without an atmosphere.
2) The main gases which contribute to this are carbon dioxide, methane and water vapor. Collectively these are called greenhouse gases.
3) The ability of these gases to act as greenhouse gases can be shown in a laboratory.
4) The quantity of these greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has increased sharply since the Industrial Revolution, and their concentration continues to do so.
5) The concentration of these gases has increased as a consequence of human activity.
6) The temperature of Earth's atmosphere has been increasing and continues to increase.
7) The increase in global temperature correlates with the increases of greenhouse gases.

These are the facts as we know them. Both sides agree with these facts.
However, and this is absolutely important, correlation is not causation! It HAS NOT been determined that the increase in temperature has been caused by the increase in greenhouse gases! That matter is still under debate by climatologists and it has not actually been decided one way or another, no matter what proponents on either side say.

My opinion is that it will eventually be shown that the correlation is coincidental and that the current climate change is a natural part of the lifespan of the Earth.

Oh, and for the record, I don't believe in "global warming" as put forth by the doomsters. Actual anthropogenic climate change is NOT global warming.

Are you smarter than the PhD’s working at NASA and NOAA?

You mean, am I an expert in climatology? Nope.

Who are you to question their smartness and official research?

I'm not. Everything that I just said is correct according to the official research. The official research does not know if climate change is caused by humans. It's only a hypothesis. And there are other hypotheses that are just as valid. After more testing and more data, we will know the answer. But probably not anytime soon.

If you need it, I can source every single step of #s 1-7...although that's not disputed science.

[GAFreedom]

Honey, I worked for pharma. If you think they’re anti vax you’re nuts.

In the link I posted, then, what is incorrect? Please enlighten.

Moreover, as I pointed out in a previous post, vaccines are sourced from materials imported from China and India. The FDA has stated many times it’s not their job to test or investigate the safety or contents of these ingredients. The vaccine manufacturers are indemnified from tort so they’re not looking either.

I am aware of that information about the FDA.
But I require citation for the vaccine manufacturers, since your essentially stating that the vaccine manufacturers do not engage in ANY quality control...which is contrary to their own statements. Your sources, please?

[Valpal1]

There’s something ENVIRONMENTAL that causes 40yr old prima para’s to have a higher risk of asd babies and other issues.

Yes, it's called age. The older you are at first birth the more likely you are to have complications, pre-natal stress and fetal distress during labor. Not to mention all manner of age related health issues. All of these things are greatly reduced in twenty-somethings.

That something that is protective in having babies earlier is youth and strength. And very likely less stress and worry. While all women worry, I suspect the 40 year old prima para worries more than the 25 year old because she knows the clock is running out.

[Valpal1]

I had measles in the 60’s when I was about 4. I did get an MMR when I went to college in 1980 because my parents did not think I had had mumps or rubella and could not remember whether I had any vaccinations other than polio or small pox.

My father was a polio survivor and made very sure we were vaxed at the earliest opportunity for that and I of course have a small pox scar and remember the the school wide event where we all lined up with our sleeves rolled up. If you didn’t already have a scar they gave you one. This included the teachers and parents and grandparents, circa 1968 in rural MT.

And I’m calling BS on your stats. The CDC info I looked still states lifetime immunity for 95% of the population on measles. The only mention of the 10 year immunity I’ve seen references the tetanus shot. Which I get every time I step on a rusty nail, which has worked out about every 10 years or so.

[Fuzz]

“rabid vaccinator”

lol

[freeangel]

“With the rates of Autism on the rise, all data seems to be pointing at the materials used in treating our kids”

I’d love to see studies on the parents use of drugs usage before, during and after pregnancy. Todays “adults” just can’t get enough of anti-depressants, pot, or other reality altering materials. I tend to think that may have something to do with autistic kids.

[Black Agnes]

“And I’m calling BS on your stats. The CDC info I looked still states lifetime immunity for 95% of the population on measles. “

Call BS all you want. I’ve got friends in the industry. The CDC stats stated lifetime immunity for tetanus at one point as well. Until they didn’t. Ditto the ‘lifetime’ immunity for Rubella that we now know is BS. Also Chickenpox. They also know the HepB vax immunity is largely gone from the pediatric scheduled doses by the time the kids reach puberty.

For example:

“The mechanism of immunity to pertussis after natural infection or immunization is complex and not fully understood. Immunity has been shown to wane seven to 20 years after natural infection and five to 10 years after immunization with whole cell vaccines “

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2532581/

That’s the Pertussis component. Bet you $5, because that’s all we can spare just now, that within 3 years it will be mandatory to be ‘up to date’ on flu vax yearly and TDaP every 5 years in order to be ‘compliant’ with Obamacare. Adults and children alike.