Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Errant
Well, I don't want to drag you into more discussion that you have time for, so I will just provide a couple comments:

1. Convenience of use.

I've personally made several purchases from Overstock. They were the easiest/simplest online purchases I've ever made.

So how would my parents, for example, go about it when they are in the store? They have with them a wallet and a debit card. They do not carry a cell phone. They are not exceptionally young, and they know only enough about computers to use email and Skype, and to read books. A large portion of Earth's population is in that same boat.

As matter of fact, I'm sitting here, surrounded by computers, and I'd be somewhat unsure how to pay someone with Bitcoin even if I had any. Well, I have a 0.00005 BTC somewhere in a test account. But I can't send it anywhere because the fees exceed the amount. This will be a common situation when 1 BTC = $1M USD. I have several computing devices; how would I synchronize the wallet among them without using Dropbox and their ilk (which, of course, are not an option with a wallet.) You see, it's infinitely easier to just call the place and tell them the number. Or to enter it into a Web form. I do not need to physically have the money to make a payment. With Bitcoin you have to have the money, here and now.

2. Insurance of accounts

Read the OP, the author is in the business of insuring crypto currency vaults

You can insure a white elephant if you want to. There is a man who will sell you insurance for every possible calamity, real or imagined. However the key word here is "sell." I do not need to pay anything for my bank accounts being insured. There is nothing of the sort with Bitcoin.

3. Guarantee of convertibility

The many numerous exchanges means you can convert Btc into any currencies or other cryptocurrencies.

Yes, they can convert. Or they can not convert. There is no guarantee whatsoever. There is no even guarantee that you will see your money ever again, as it is the case with Mt. Gox. Courts will not make money out of thin air. They can only punish the guilty, if the victims are lucky.

4. Government oversight to prevent shenanigans

The Bitcoin community is self-regulation, but that doesn't mean government doesn't play a part, as we're seeing with the courts involved with the Mt. Gox fiasco.

In other words, that "self-regulation" did not prevent Mt. Gox to take people's money for MONTHS, knowing well that they are running a pyramid. The government got involved only after people filed lawsuits. A well regulated economy *prevents* such situations by requiring that banks follow the rules. There were no rules to follow for Mt. Gox because it was an illegal (in many countries, but not in Japan,) unregulated bank. No surprise that its officers had no clue what's happening (if we give them benefit of the doubt.)

5. Stable value

Check Btc's chart against the dollar's chart since its introduction.

It's a rollercoaster alright. What else can one see there? It got to $1,100, then fell to $550, then rose to $800, then fell to $600 ... ? If I send you $1,000 in BTC today, nobody knows how much you will get, in dollar value, tomorrow, after it passes one day and two exchanges.

6. Paper trail and reversibility of transactions

Paper trail is contained within the public distributed ledger. Businesses will reverse your transactions if you are not satisfied (see Overstock's return policy).

So why Mt. Gox won't reverse transactions through which, they say, someone stole their money? The answer is simple: you only can know that account 32904823jrkjl3423432 received the money. No face, no name, no address attached to that account. You cannot send police there; you cannot name that person in a lawsuit. This is not how it works in the banking industry.

7. Acknowledged security of the entire mechanism

The system is very secure compared to CCs and other means of conducting transactions.

Credit cards, even those with mag stripe that we still use in the USA, have far more security checks at the bank than any Bitcoin transaction. But the real deal here is that those transactions are reversible because every payment has a name and an address attached to them. You tell the bank that the transaction is fraudulent and they pull the money back from the merchant's account. You, as the c/c holder, are not injured. (The merchant might be, if he is lax at checking c/c credentials.)

In simple words, if anything happens with your c/c account you have someone to complain to - and that would be the bank that issued the card. You know for a fact that they will listen to you, and most likely they will help you. This is diametrically opposite to Bitcoin. If you mistype an address and send your money there... it's gone. What would you do in such a case? However if I'm at at the Home Depot Web site paying for a wrench with a c/c, I cannot imagine a situation when my payment would go to Walgreens, no matter what I do.

30 posted on 04/03/2014 11:42:47 PM PDT by Greysard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies ]


To: Greysard

Bitcoin is as easy as sending email.It’s that simple. Maybe get your hands on some more and move it around, you’ll see. This is to a point where there is no turning back.People who won’t get up to speed with this technology are simply going to be left behind.


31 posted on 04/04/2014 4:33:56 AM PDT by TsonicTsunami08 (SEND BITCOIN 1CYfujvffxKKPHKvrQvLP3CDb3Z5Lu7LwM Funny Money)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies ]

To: Greysard

I’ll get back to you later on #30 Greysard. Gotta run for now...


38 posted on 04/04/2014 7:11:48 AM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies ]

To: Greysard
Well, I don't want to drag you into more discussion that you have time for...

Thanks for your consideration. I really do need to start limiting my online time. This time of year is my favorite time to be outside doing stuff. Everything in moderation you... ;)

1. Convenience of use.

So how would my parents, for example, go about it when they are in the store?

This reminds me of the vault issue I discussed back in December with the other guy. I discounted his notion vaults would still be needed too easily, due to only looking at the circumstance from my point of view. What you've raised here could be a similar need that needs a solution. I just happened across a article that may answer part of the problem: Inside Square’s Stealth Approach to Bitcoin Integration

I have a 0.00005 BTC somewhere in a test account.

That's only $0.0225. Not hardly worth bending over to pickup? If you're going to do some testing, a tenth of a bitcoin would only run you about $45 now.

Again, the easiest, fastest online transactions I've ever made were done using bitcoin. Before I could change windows after hitting send, the purchase was completed!

2. Insurance of accounts

I do not need to pay anything for my bank accounts being insured. There is nothing of the sort with Bitcoin.

Yes you do, It's hidden, you wouldn't believe how much insurance costs (e.g., facility, FDIC, other). Also, banks have large IT security, and independent audit costs.

3. Guarantee of convertibility

There is no even guarantee that you will see your money ever again, as it is the case with Mt. Gox.

For every Mt. Gox, there are dozens of others that dealt in dollars which have also collapsed. And indeed, the long arm of the law is working to get victims at least some of their investment back. Then there is a class action lawsuit that has been filed.

4. Government oversight to prevent shenanigans

There were no rules to follow for Mt. Gox because it was an illegal (in many countries, but not in Japan,) unregulated bank.

Mt. Gox was/is an exchange, not a bank. Indeed something strange took place and it's being investigated not only by Japanese Investigators, but also US Investigators.

5. Stable value

It's a rollercoaster alright. What else can one see there?

Actually I find its value pretty stable considering its high tech, newly invented nature. If you haven't noticed, gold, silver, and certain well known stocks (twitter, facebook for two) have been pretty volatile too.

6. Paper trail and reversibility of transactions

So why Mt. Gox won't reverse transactions through which, they say, someone stole their money? The answer is simple: you only can know that account 32904823jrkjl3423432 received the money. No face, no name, no address attached to that account.

Actually Mt. Gox does have this very information available. Everyone had an account with their personal information and attached to each, addresses to their bitcoins.

7. Acknowledged security of the entire mechanism

Credit cards, even those with mag stripe that we still use in the USA, have far more security checks at the bank than any Bitcoin transaction. But the real deal here is that those transactions are reversible because every payment has a name and an address attached to them.

I believe there is the requirement to notify your CC agency within 30 days of discrepancies. Bankcards have not so many avenues to contest charges. The CC industry spends much time and resources dealing with fraud, securing customer records, and etc. and these costs are passed on to the consumer through higher interest rates and merchant fees.

CC companies are looking at crypto push technologies due to its superior efficiency since the merchant doesn't have to fear chargebacks, and customer records aren't required for verification at the POS. No doubt more can be done to make crypto more user friendly. Sounds like another opportunity for filling a need to me.

If the world holds together, crypto currency/payment are here to stay and will continue to grow in popularity due to their utility.

47 posted on 04/04/2014 6:32:35 PM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson